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Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

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Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#11
To address the points raised in these comments:

1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange.

The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/">many neurons can we model on current hardware. The answer to that is: not nearly enough... yet. At the current rate of technological growth, we can expect to model a full rat brain within ten years, with a human brain shortly to follow (remember, exponential growth moves fast!) Once we can fully simulate a brain, the only limit to its power is the speed of the processor it runs on.

This approach also addresses the "recognizing a dog" point. By accurately simulating a brain, they will use the same algorithm the brain does to recognize objects. It is also worth pointing out that http://www.onintelligence.org/index.php">advances http://www.numenta.com/">are being made in deriving the cortical algorithm directly and using it for the very type of pattern recognition you mention.

Finally, the point is subtly flawed. Cats recognize dogs "without having ever seen one before" because the knowledge of what a dog is is hardwired into their brains from birth. In effect, they have seen dogs before, or some part of their brains have.

2. The point applying survival of the fittest to robots is ridiculous. I barely know where to begin.

First, we will use the term AI instead of robot, as a robot is just an AI with a body. Second, the only thing that matters to an AI is how "smart" it is - how efficient its algorithms are and how fast those algorithms run. Having a big strong body doesn't even make sense in this context.

Additionally, the idea that AI's will design AI's smarter than them is also flawed. If an AI figures out an algorithm that allows for a more efficient thought process, what's to stop the AI from modifying itself to use that algorithm?

3. Pills: Pharmaceutical drugs have (often serious) side effects. Homeopathic medicines usually have very little side effects. I'm not saying that taking all those pills is healthy or beneficial, but the rampant side effects people seem to be suggesting probably won't manifest.

The heuristic that seems to crop up in all matters of health/eating is "in all things moderation."

4. Ray Kurzweil suggests that the final form of immortality will manifest as computer systems able to model/run our consciousnesses. That way we will be able to exist for as long as the machines do, as well as back up and transfer our consciousnesses.

I submit that, even if this is possible, it wouldn't make you. Rather, it would merely ensure that some copy of you persisted. Consider if you could make perfect clones of yourself, with all of your memories and developments. Those clones would act exactly like you, but they still wouldn't be you.

5. On a personal note, if we agree that it's possible that a method for achieving immortality will be discovered in our lifetimes, the logical course of action is to devote the entirety of ones efforts towards realizing this possibility. The reward surely justifies the risk.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#12

To address the points raised in these comments: 1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange. The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/ ">many neurons can we model on current ha…

Great points.

> Consider if you could make perfect clones of yourself, with all of your memories and developments.

> Those clones would act exactly like you, but they still wouldn't be you.

I believe the argument is something along the line of if you replace a neuron with some sort of artificial neuron are you still "you"? How about another 10? How about a handful here and a handful there over the course of a year? What if 10% of your neurons are now artificial along with fake hips and knees and regenerated biological teeth? not to mention the tip of your finger that you accidentally sliced off..

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#13

>Kurzweil predicts that by the early 2030s, most of our fallible internal organs will have been replaced by tiny robots. We'll have "eliminated the heart, lungs, red and white blood cells, platelets, pancreas, thyroid and all the hormone-producing organs, kidneys, bladder, liver, lower esophagus, stomach, small intestines, large intestines, and bowel. What we have left at this point is the skeleton, skin, sex organs,…

I think this is a much better argument against it than any of the more common technologically pessimistic ones.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#14

To address the points raised in these comments: 1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange. The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/ ">many neurons can we model on current ha…

>Homeopathic medicines usually have very little side effects.

Yes, because they don't do anything. They are based on a false idea that can never work. There is no scientific and clinic evidence to show that it does work. It is ridiculous to even mention it as an alternative.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#15
I loved Kurzweil's book. Unfortunately in all the talk about Moore's Law and exponential growth, Murphy's Law was forgotten (perhaps in a self-referencing manifestation of the same law).

Example: My HMO has figured out that, if a patient has a serious chronic ailment (e.g., diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc.) then it is cheaper for them should the patient die:

I. Treat patient:

      cost of treatment           $100

      cost of future treatments   $???
Highly-variable costs borne largely by the HMO.

II. Let patient die:

      cost of treatment           $100

      cost of future treatments   $  0
Cost to HMO limited to $100. Remaining costs borne by the deceased's life insurance company.

The perfect HMO patient is one who never visits his doctor and then dies quickly.

Should the HMO increase profitability by speeding their chronically-ill patients to a painless death? Stockholders cry "Yes!"; patients whimper a fearful "No." Needless to say some cognitive dissonance must arise should one's income be so directly tied to one's ability to (not) keep one's patients alive.

Economic and social conflicts within the medical system are a greater hindrance to the singularity than are technical hurdles.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#16

To address the points raised in these comments: 1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange. The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/ ">many neurons can we model on current ha…

we will use the term AI instead of robot

I use the term "robot" because these things need a physical component, especially if they are going to be manufacturing other physical components that contain themselves. AI is attached to atoms no matter what. Atoms are expensive. As soon as expense is involved, economic scarcity is involved. As soon as scarcity is involved, competition is involved.

the only thing that matters to an AI is how "smart" it is - how efficient its algorithms are and how fast those algorithms run

What is this "algorithm" thing? A newborn baby, I strongly suspect, contains very few algorithms.

If an AI figures out an algorithm that allows for a more efficient thought process, what's to stop the AI from modifying itself to use that algorithm

Nothing. And once you have billions of robots [see above] modifying themselves, duplicating themselves, etc, you are going to start running low on resources. Once one of them learns to...instead of making itself "better" [in our opinion]...make itself competitive, the race to higher intelligence will end, as with humans.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#17
post #6

I can't help noticing that while we are making these exponential advances in technology, we are also using exponential amounts of our limited supplies of cheap resources -- things like oil, coal, copper, gold, and helium. I sure hope Kurzweil gets his singularity before any of these limiting factors kick in, or it could put a nasty kink in his graph.

One of the most striking features of the 20th century is that the economy has gotten lighter per unit of wealth. New goods are made of fewer raw materials and more ideas. Greenspan has a famous piece on this, which unfortunately I was not able to google up. I am with Julian Simon on the issue, I doubt that raw material scarcity will be a significant brake on human advancement.

Exactly, they're only overused as long as they're cheap. We'll find alternatives quickly once the price signals that it's worth it. (The alternative might be a lower standard of living because no alternative can be found, but that's life). And usually, that shift creates an arbitrage opportunity that someone is going to make money off of.

For instance, while many people fear rising gas and oil prices, I'm pretty sure motorcycle manufacturers, bicycle shops, and rental property owners in dense, transit-rich cities are licking their chops. $10/gal gas makes NYC rent more reasonable.

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#18
I've got a better plan for my future: I'm going to grow old and die.

(Unless, of course, fate intervenes and I don't grow old. But I intend to keep planning to grow old right up until the last minute!)

It's a classic plan, and well tested. Lots of prior art. Lots of examples to learn from, and a lot of infrastructure and literature.

You folks can find fault with my plan if you want. But here's the thing: You're going to follow the same plan, whether you're willing to admit it or not. [1]

Further reading: http://kk.org/ct2/2007/09/my-life-countdown-1.php

[1] I'd offer to bet, because my odds are really, really good... but tontines are illegal for a good reason. ;)

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#19

To address the points raised in these comments: 1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange. The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/ ">many neurons can we model on current ha…

I strongly disagree with Point #2. How we interact with our environment contributes greatly to how we perceive the world. Intelligence that is synthesized outside of natural processes (I think the term "AI" is paradoxical when describing super-human intelligence) will require means of interacting with the environment in the same way we require our bodies.

It would be evolutionarily advantageous for a superhuman intelligence to devise better ways of grasping/flying/swimming in order to expand upon the existing knowledge base that it would acquire. Also from the perspective of experienced-based knowledge having a "body" would be invaluable.

In other words, reading books and doing thought experiments do not contribute to our intelligence as much as these things in combination with experimentation and interaction with our real world through what our bodies can manifest. If a super human intelligence does come into consciousness, then it's possible that it would see the advantage of this...

Could you please elaborate upon Point #1?

Re: Futurist Ray Kurzweil Pulls Out All the Stops (and Pills) to Live to Witness the Singularity

#20
post #12

To address the points raised in these comments: 1. We do NOT have "the equivalent computing power of a kitten's brain." That's like saying that because we have apples we have the equivalent taste of an orange. The only real way to translate current silicon processor-based computing into a biological brain-based form is to ask how http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19767/ ">many neurons can we model on current ha…

Great points. > Consider if you could make perfect clones of yourself, with all of your memories and developments. > Those clones would act exactly like you, but they still wouldn't be you. I believe the argument is something along the line of if you replace a neuron with some sort of artificial neuron are you still "you"? How about another 10? How about a handful here and a handful there over the course of a year? W…

If you put an old harddisk in a new computer does it boot to the same desktop? If you say "That does apply to people because..." then Ray counters that we'll find out if this is the case within our lifetimes.
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