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Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

forbes.com

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Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#171

Post by nf05papsjfVbc »

lovich wrote: post #56
mikegerwitz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain places place high value on domain-specific knowledge and trained employees. I work at a wholesale insurance company (middleman); we have over a hundred individual systems, some simple, some quite complex. Some of those systems can be maintained by any programmer that comes in. Others really shouldn't be maintained by someone who doesn't have good experience in writing maintainable code. But many projects requ…

If you could have made more money by job hopping, and your other programmers left for more money presumably, is your company really valuing experience? It's very easy to say you value experience, but if you wont allocate resources towards employees with experience then your company is signalling that they don't actually value it.

They value it if it comes cheap.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#172

Post by cvsh »

josephjrobison wrote: post #51
usmannk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised Forbes would publish it Unfortunately much of Forbes has become nothing but a fancy blog, very much akin to Business Insider. With the amount of "contributors" posting to the site nowadays the Forbes name in the URL isn't exactly a positive indicator, if not a warning sign.

Was Forbes ever a respectable publication though? I ask with all sincerity. It seems their volume is super high and that's about it, so they get name recognition from repetition, not sure what else from.

I'm not sure, but I'm sure they aren't now. I'm actually kind of thankful for all the horse shit they throw up before allowing you to actually view an article, because it's almost always effective at fizzling out the curiousity gap and leading me to close the page in exasperation. It's gotten to the point where whenever I see I opened a Forbes article in a new tab I just automatically roll my eyes and close it, like a Pavlovian response.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#173

Post by PixelB »

elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

Great, but that most certainly does not work at all companies.

The last company I worked for unequivocally treated their non-management employees like garbage. The company basically had the same management for 10 years prior, with a few "loyal" employees promoted to manager along the way. By "loyal" I mean that they were willing to sell anyone out to advance their own careers.

If the company even caught wind you were looking elsewhere, your life would become a living hell. Get ready for extra hours (Salaried, no extra pay), weekend work, Holiday work, getting your vacation time denied because they are "too busy", etc. Pretty hard to find a job when your employer is making you physically ill from stress.

In the meantime, the moment they catch wind of you looking elsewhere they start bringing in new candidates. Easy to fill those Bachelors-level positions after all, lots of recent college grads willing to not have a life in lieu of work, and they will probably want less money than you too!

I saw entire teams of 10+ people replaced within a year, then again, having to retrain their own replacements. The company even outsourced our work to Malaysia and we were warned not to tell our clients about it or we could face termination.

The only way to survive in corporate America nowadays is to be a cutthroat scumbag, no thanks.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#174

Post by skj »

thehardsphere wrote: post #159
lostboys67 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I don't mean to sound mean but this is not how the world works

Actually, it is how the world works. If there was really a gender pay gap for women who are doing the exact same work as men with the exact same experience as men, then it would be trivial for employers to reduce their costs by only hiring women. Yet, nobody ever does this.

It is true that in a purely rational system, there would be no pay gap (controlling for ability and impact).

But guess what...

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#175

Post by mojomark »

joyofdata wrote: post #163
mojomark wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as her sub-employee are risking the most severe of all offenses - asking for more than what your supervisor makes. This is a flawed philosophy. As a manager I have had a few critical pulling in higher salaries than my own. If you are a superviser who is artificially holding an employee back from reaching their full potential (seeking compensation that matches the demand person's talent in the open market) than you…

you are argumenting from an optimal-employee-perspective or what you might choose to call it. Fact is - even supervisors are humans and 90% of them will be hesitant to have somebody "under" them while making more or as much money. I fear that's just a fact.

It's true that some supervisors operate in this manner (i.e. oppressing employees based on their own compensation), but those are egregiously sub-optimal supervisors indeed.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#176

Post by adrianN »

thehardsphere wrote: post #159
lostboys67 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I don't mean to sound mean but this is not how the world works

Actually, it is how the world works. If there was really a gender pay gap for women who are doing the exact same work as men with the exact same experience as men, then it would be trivial for employers to reduce their costs by only hiring women. Yet, nobody ever does this.

This is a nice argument that I actually believe myself, but you could counter it by saying that, due to sexism, even when women and men do exactly the same work, the males' result are valued more. Hiring managers don't have to be perfectly rational, they could be (unconsciously) sexist.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#177

Post by Mtinie »

joyofdata wrote: post #163
mojomark wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as her sub-employee are risking the most severe of all offenses - asking for more than what your supervisor makes. This is a flawed philosophy. As a manager I have had a few critical pulling in higher salaries than my own. If you are a superviser who is artificially holding an employee back from reaching their full potential (seeking compensation that matches the demand person's talent in the open market) than you…

you are argumenting from an optimal-employee-perspective or what you might choose to call it. Fact is - even supervisors are humans and 90% of them will be hesitant to have somebody "under" them while making more or as much money. I fear that's just a fact.

Can you provide a source for your "90%" assertion, please?

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#178

Post by dustinmoris »

PixelB wrote: post #173
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

Great, but that most certainly does not work at all companies. The last company I worked for unequivocally treated their non-management employees like garbage. The company basically had the same management for 10 years prior, with a few "loyal" employees promoted to manager along the way. By "loyal" I mean that they were willing to sell anyone out to advance their own careers. If the company even caught wind you were…

Are you talking about developers? Currently the market is in favour of employees, as there is more demand for them than supply, at least that is my feeling based on constantly being harassed by head hunters trying to desperately fill positions and not even having luck by recruiting people from all around the world.

If a company can afford to treat its employees like "garbage" then they will and that is the exact point that when the market is in favour of employees, they shouldn't be shy to treat their employer with the same scrutiny. Demand every penny you can get and if they are not willing to give you what you can get elsewhere, then be prepared to just go, because as you said very well, if the company would have that advantage they would do it as well.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#179

Post by Mtinie »

statictype wrote: post #136
boomboomsubban wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In a lot of places, having a talk with your manager about your salary before going off and actively looking for other offers is going to go down a lot better. Most line managers worth working for, value their teams and will fight for them if they are unhappy, without the threats. This doesn't agree with the research here, and your first statement doesn't agree with your second. If you value your team, they shouldn't…

You can value your team and still be running on fumes and not be able to currently pay them what you think they should get. There's no contradiction in that.

In that case you can be disappointed that your business can't do right by the employees you lose while at the same time being happy for those people for finding new places of employment that can pay them what they are worth.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#180

Post by lostboys67 »

thehardsphere wrote: post #159
lostboys67 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I don't mean to sound mean but this is not how the world works

Actually, it is how the world works. If there was really a gender pay gap for women who are doing the exact same work as men with the exact same experience as men, then it would be trivial for employers to reduce their costs by only hiring women. Yet, nobody ever does this.

No it isn't I know one large uk tech company that is Terified of its gender pay gap becoming public.

Like wise the BBC being forced to disclose pay rates for talent some Male presenters have taken pay cuts btw

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