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Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

forbes.com

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Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#161

Post by marvin »

FRex wrote: post #89
sverhagen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old joke, not mine: 90% of developers believes they're above average .

90% of a population can easily be above average in a real life scenario where most of the group is roughly equal with few elements dragging the average slightly below their level. Example: nine 11s and one 10, the average is 10.9 and 90% of the population is above it. If you want to split a group in half then you need to use the median.

Also, developer skill is not a one-dimensional attribute, e.g. you could be better at writing maintainable code but worse at translating business requirements into $$$. Most developers are probably above average in one metric.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#162

Post by eeZah7Ux »

manicdee wrote: post #52

My contrary opinion is that people who job hop every two years are the ones who come in, make enough progress that management thinknthey are pretty nifty, then leave before they have to domany maintenance on the technical debt they left behind. Sure, it is good to be highly paid, but the situation just reinforces the idea that people who wear suits are paid far too much. Though I find myself i the situation of wantin…

It's up to the management to ensure that high turnover doesn't lead to technical debt, or simply prevent that high turnover.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#163

Post by joyofdata »

mojomark wrote: post #154
joyofdata wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the line manager is employee herself, the strategy only works, if she is applying it herself, too. Otherwise her salary might not be competitive and you as her sub-employee are risking the most severe of all offenses - asking for more than what your supervisor makes.

> as her sub-employee are risking the most severe of all offenses - asking for more than what your supervisor makes. This is a flawed philosophy. As a manager I have had a few critical pulling in higher salaries than my own. If you are a superviser who is artificially holding an employee back from reaching their full potential (seeking compensation that matches the demand person's talent in the open market) than you…

you are argumenting from an optimal-employee-perspective or what you might choose to call it. Fact is - even supervisors are humans and 90% of them will be hesitant to have somebody "under" them while making more or as much money. I fear that's just a fact.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#164

Post by jaclaz »

sokoloff wrote: post #160
mikekchar wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, look at it from a hiring manager's perspective: people who have stayed in a job long enough to see how things go wrong are also less expensive. I'll be honest, if I'm looking at a CV for someone with 10 years of experience and they have changed jobs every year or two, I will suspect that they are missing some pretty important experience as a senior developer. Everybody makes serious mistakes that d…

> if I'm looking at a CV for someone with 10 years of experience and they have changed jobs every year or two, I will suspect that they are missing some pretty important experience as a senior developer. I call this the "one year of experience, ten times" phenomenon.

>I call this the "one year of experience, ten times" phenomenon.

As a side note, I always find funny reading "Our team has 20 years of combined experience in ..." as if a two people team with 10 years each was the same thing as 20 people with one year each.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#165

Post by _pmf_ »

scaryclam wrote: post #112
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

I imagine this is good advice in some places, but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job. In a lot of places, having a talk with your manager about your salary before going off and actively looking for other offers is going to go down a lot better. Most line managers worth working for, value their teams and will fight for them if they are un…

> I imagine this is good advice in some places, but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job.

A fool and his employees are soon parted.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#166

Post by wyclif »

scaryclam wrote: post #112
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

I imagine this is good advice in some places, but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job. In a lot of places, having a talk with your manager about your salary before going off and actively looking for other offers is going to go down a lot better. Most line managers worth working for, value their teams and will fight for them if they are un…

without the threats

I wouldn't dispute that seeking offers before a request for raise might not go over well (depending on the specific business), but I think calling it a "threat" is needlessly weaponizing salary negotiation in a market where everyone acknowledges salaries have been flat for a long time.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#167

Post by EdSharkey »

thehardsphere wrote: post #159
lostboys67 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I don't mean to sound mean but this is not how the world works

Actually, it is how the world works. If there was really a gender pay gap for women who are doing the exact same work as men with the exact same experience as men, then it would be trivial for employers to reduce their costs by only hiring women. Yet, nobody ever does this.

This thread suddenly became gold. Don't you dare die on me, thread!

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#168

Post by PacketPaul »

josephjrobison wrote: post #51
usmannk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised Forbes would publish it Unfortunately much of Forbes has become nothing but a fancy blog, very much akin to Business Insider. With the amount of "contributors" posting to the site nowadays the Forbes name in the URL isn't exactly a positive indicator, if not a warning sign.

Was Forbes ever a respectable publication though? I ask with all sincerity. It seems their volume is super high and that's about it, so they get name recognition from repetition, not sure what else from.

Yes. Like the Bruno Mars song says "I want to be on the cover of Forbes magazine...". At one time that was a big deal.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#169

Post by usegolang »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #138
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

I think this is considered bad advice. Nearly every HR article about this subject states that doing this will on average results in being let go after a year.

As a general rule, you shouldn't threaten to do anything you aren't willing to do. So you shouldn't threaten to take another job offer unless you are willing to do it.

If you value staying at your existing job more than a raise then you are right, you shouldn't do this. But if you are okay with walking and talking about offer them this can be beneficial. I have even heard managers state that certain raises are not possible without another offer that they can bring to HR/whoever to prove that they need to pay someone more to retain them. Doesn't mean the manager necessarily wants to replace you, but it could be a sign of oddities within a large Corp.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#170

Post by kogepathic »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #138
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

I think this is considered bad advice. Nearly every HR article about this subject states that doing this will on average results in being let go after a year.

> I think this is considered bad advice.

I agree, but for a different reason. Not only would this behaviour annoy your employer, but it shows that your employer doesn't care to pay you market rates or what you're worth.

So why do you keep working for people who don't pay you what you're worth?

Accept the outside offer and move on.

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