In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete • Hacker News Board

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#121

Post by est » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:04 AM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #98

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

I don't see it as a class thing but it certainly is a culture thing. When the American's go to build their app, you get something out of silicon valley that is almost built for the programmers. It will use hardware that requires everyone to buy a new phone (like NFC). Things like QR codes would be derided as insecure and exploitable. It will comply with consumer protections. In China the app will be made chabudao (go…

> chabudao

Chabuduo, but again your spelling is chabuduo OK

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#122

Post by Juha » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:09 AM UTC

lucaspiller wrote: post #115

It sounds like one of the reasons why this has grown so quickly - compared to mobile payments in the west - is that you can just sign up and have it instantly. Apple Pay and the like need your bank and the retailer to support it which doesn't happen straight away. In this case it sounds very much like the dream of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. The article mentions that not everyone has access to it though, if you jus…

> And what about privacy? Obviously everything you buy is being fed into a big government database somewhere. Do people in China not care about that (has privacy been eroded so much)?

I don't see how it's different from using credit cards or any other digital payment method.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#123

Post by 127 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:12 AM UTC

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

>The way I see it, we have democracy in politics

Are you so sure of that? http://www.businessinsider.com/princeton-and-northwestern-st...

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#124

Post by usaphp » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:13 AM UTC

lyricat wrote: post #29

itchap wrote: post #28

I have been living in Shanghai for few years now. Alipay and Wechat are really a big thing. It is far from the vision of mobile payment people have in Europe for example, where it is more of solution for small payments. People are using Alipay and Wechat pay for everything, being online shopping, restaurants, supermarkets, train tickets, electricity, water, even some tax declaration. So it is not just a replacement t…

Or phone stolen.

At least if your phone is stolen you still have your money safe, if you cash is stolen - it's a different story

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#125

Post by gumby » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:13 AM UTC

rodgerd wrote: post #40

_ea1k wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. I have only managed to use Android Pay a couple of times and the store that I did that with has removed it since then. When it works, it is approximately the same level of annoyance as a credit card. When it fails, it is so much worse. I just don't see it taking off here in its current form.

> Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. You have got to be kidding. Handing my card over to someone who disappears off with it? Those bloody awful faux-pens to sign on an LCD? That's your idea of easy to use? Paying for things in the US feels like the stone ages.

> Paying for things in the US feels like the stone ages.

Trust me, living here feels that way too, except everyone is at pains to tell you that it's the greatest in the world. And don't get sick!

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#126

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:14 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #109

Alipay is trying to expand into the US. Citcon is trying to get US merchants to integrate Alipay. First Data is on board with Alipay. At least 4 million US merchants already accept Alipay. That's probably more traction than Google Pay or Apple's payment system ever got. "Alipay, leader in online payments. 400,000,000 Users."

It is better to say that 4m merchants do have access to Alipay, but may elect to not to use it.

I knew quite a few places in Vancouver where people were ready to accept payment by zhifubao id, but nobody had qr scanners or anything. It may end up like Paypal local - come to shop that accepts paypal, ask if they support it, and yeah "transfer money to id 4746474, call me back when you are done"

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#127

Post by pmontra » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:23 AM UTC

theylon wrote: post #50

Living in China for the past two years - Important thing to remember - in China and in most of South-East Asia the tech boom came at a later stage when smartphones were already prominent. Android + Chinese manufacturing made it possible to produce cheap smart phones. The result is that these countries have completely skipped the laptop phase and went straight to smartphones, most of the population doesn't even know w…

I've been in China as a tourist for three weeks two years ago. I paid everything with cash. Easy.

What would I do now if I have to pay with WeChat and I obviously don't have a Chinese bank account? Tourists don't have time to waste in banks and unless bank accounts are created and activated on the fly it would be pointless to open one. Maybe open an account in advance from home? Is that possible? Or WeChat and Alipay start operating with accounts in multiple countries.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#128

Post by StreamBright » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:25 AM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #25

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

"In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china"

I disagree. CC fraud was unknown to me until I moved to the USA. The security chip was not used for a very long time in the USA and just started to be a thing. First version of chip enabled CCs had no pin. I am not sure about good enough.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#129

Post by svckr » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:26 AM UTC

csydas wrote: post #87

nickrio wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options. There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly…

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit.

Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport is sloooowly starting to roll out RFID tickets & readers.

All I'm saying is, I find the cultural differences and the impact they have on our day to day dealings (which, on the surface, seem to be the same globally) deeply fascinating :)

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#130

Post by sksksk » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:32 AM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #25

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

A reverse example in the US is money transfer, in Europe it's extremely easy to send money between bank accounts instantly and for free. But in the US it is more difficult to companies like Venmo popped up.