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As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

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Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#101

Post by tcj_phx »

extra88 wrote: post #90
tcj_phx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By "organized crime," I assume you mean something other what's traditionally thought of as organized crime, e.g. the Mafia, but I can't tell what. The Mafia and other manifestations of "traditional" organized crime is exactly what I was referring to. Two years ago, when a new friend was teaching me about her addictions, I bought Johann Hari's book, Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs [2]…

Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. Having meaningful things to do is not "inherent." I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The drug is a progestin, a synthetic h…

> Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it.

The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime.

> It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic.

The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and maintained by stupid politicians. It could be ended in a few months by implementing the same solution as is used in Switzerland.

> I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory.

The same drug is given to male sex offenders [1] explicitly for the purpose of chemical castration. Many women lose their libido when they're put on this drug. No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medroxyprogesterone_acetate#Ot...

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#103

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #32
traviscj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. That is sickening. Since it seems like you have some expertise in the area, is this antipattern actually codified In regulations, or more of a de-facto/status quo thing?

> is this antipattern actually codified In regulations, or more of a de-facto/status quo thing? A lot of drug purchasing things are codified. For example, Medicare is banned from negotiating drug pricing with manufactures. So even though they're buying billions of dollars worth of drugs in bulk, they're literally paying the retail price, which is just whatever the Pharma companies ask for. In terms of why they're buy…

[deleted]

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#104

Post by krakensden »

pmoriarty wrote: post #66
Alex3917 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is this antipattern actually codified In regulations, or more of a de-facto/status quo thing? A lot of drug purchasing things are codified. For example, Medicare is banned from negotiating drug pricing with manufactures. So even though they're buying billions of dollars worth of drugs in bulk, they're literally paying the retail price, which is just whatever the Pharma companies ask for. In terms of why they're buy…

"Medicare is banned from negotiating drug pricing with manufactures." Where can I read more about this? I've heard the exact opposite.

Medicare Part D is the bit of law involved. Here is a randomly googled column with some history from a reputable paper: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-medica...

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#105

Post by extra88 »

tcj_phx wrote: post #101
extra88 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. Having meaningful things to do is not "inherent." I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The drug is a progestin, a synthetic h…

> Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime. > It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and mai…

You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. Of course, a lot of the attention being paid is not because of the relative scope but because the affected population is whiter and less poor.

But synthetic vs. plant-based doesn't mean shit, plenty of plants can kill you. I'm all for treatment over criminalization but you sound more like you're advocating for legalization of heroin.

> No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance.

Sure, if you're willing to ignore all the other information on that Wikipedia page. Every patient should be well-informed about possible side effects before starting a medication. The injection form is longer lasting so it may take longer for bad effects to subside but loss of libido for a few months is not the end of the world.

The worst thing about chemical castration of sex offenders is it's forced.

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#106

Post by Noumenon72 »

torpfactory wrote: post #81

I think we could add this to Jeff Bezos' ideas for philanthropic endeavors. Hell, it doesn't even need to be philanthropic. Amazon seems to have no problem with razor-thin profit margins: Why not create a company which has no problem making and selling generic-only drugs at razor-thin margins? There would seem to be a lot of room to undercut a business who sells for $4500 what might be produced for $20. I think our c…

There would be a Jeff Bezos if the drug market was as unregulated as the book market. Because of the regulations, instead there will be a Martin Shkreli.

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#107

Post by tcj_phx »

extra88 wrote: post #105
tcj_phx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime. > It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and mai…

You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. Of course, a lot of the attention being paid is not because of the relative scope but because the affected population is whiter and less poor. But synthetic vs. plant-based doesn't mean sh…

> You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids.

My friend did not transfer her addiction from pills, she was a good old-fashioned heroin addict. The present body count stems from the synthetics. Many fewer people died when the street pharmacy's products were purer.

> I'm all for treatment over criminalization but you sound more like you're advocating for legalization of heroin.

I don't think legalization is necessary, just an acknowledgement that present policy is actually a make-work program for organized crime.

As for your comments about Provera, I say that doctors should not play Russian Roulette with women's health.

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#108

Post by robotresearcher »

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #57
Clubber wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how long this country can survive with this rampant corruption and profiteering. When do we hit a breaking point, and what does that look like? I mean I read your response and think, "wow, that's horrible." Then realize absolutely nothing is going to be done about it.

You mean unregulated Capitlism? It will wake up when we realize we need some middle ground between Capitalism and Socialism.

Most everybody already realizes this. We have exactly such a system in place. The argument is about exactly where the balance is to be found.

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#109

Post by [deleted] »

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #57
Clubber wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how long this country can survive with this rampant corruption and profiteering. When do we hit a breaking point, and what does that look like? I mean I read your response and think, "wow, that's horrible." Then realize absolutely nothing is going to be done about it.

You mean unregulated Capitlism? It will wake up when we realize we need some middle ground between Capitalism and Socialism.

[deleted]

Re: As opioid overdoses exact a higher price, communities ponder who should be saved

#110

Post by Clubber »

extra88 wrote: post #105
tcj_phx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime. > It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and mai…

You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. Of course, a lot of the attention being paid is not because of the relative scope but because the affected population is whiter and less poor. But synthetic vs. plant-based doesn't mean sh…

From what I understand, the current state of the epidemic was exacerbated by the crackdown on pills and the current deaths is from heroin more than anything. Heroin used by people who can no longer get pills of which they know the dosage of.
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