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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#31

Post by tsukaisute »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough. In china, lots of small-scale businesses lack POS terminals while Chinese banks put the burden of proof in case of fraud on the card user, rather than the merchant as in the west. Using a credit card in china is an absolute PITA. Since returning to the states from china, I've been happily surprised that I can just tap my credi…

Just wish everyone would hop onboard quicker. We still need a lot of consumer education.

For example, Apple Pay works great at Whole Foods. I use it every time. Other people in line painstakingly pay with credit cards, despite holding an iPhone in their other hand. The new chip cards take longer to process, even, 5 seconds or so.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#32

Post by grok2 »

teknologist wrote: post #5
sjg007 wrote: post #4

Surprised that QR codes are not more ubiquitous in the USA. Seems like a great platform.

But not as safe. There was news about people putting their own QR codes on rental bikes so that people mistakenly send cash to them in China.

It seems to me that QR codes could make it easy for someone to replace the original QR code with a different QR code at any place that accepts them and the merchant is none-the-wiser (unless there is some form of integration back to their PoS system) -- it seems like this could be a new form of skimming (stick your own QR code over any merchants :-)).

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#34

Post by thablackbull »

mahyarm wrote: post #25
thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but I suppose I am more commenting on the difference in attitude and execution.

While services like Android/Watsapp were created in the West and do service the lower end market, they still follow the "leader", isn't seen by the population as "cool/hip/etc." Even with credit cards, there are many merchants here that don't accept them (especially Amex) and Visa because of the prohibitive fees. The attitude in America is, define your market (high end/low end) and then extract the absolute amount of wealth you can, and defend your market share by any means possible.

In contrast, as you saw with the busker in the article, when it is rolled out in China, it is truly (almost) for everyone. They try to use economics of scale to get everyone on board so the entire nation is moving as a collective. Another example is the high speed rail; I recall reading an article that even though wages doubled, the fares didn't budge at all. It just allowed more and more people to take advantage of a good service. In America, you'd bet they try to increase fares as much as possible to extract as much as possible out of the consumer. Obviously there are problems, as with inferior phones, but when everyone is on board, there is an acceleration in innovation and they start solve those problems. Then you see things like people wanting higher end models and companies are forced to innovate. A company like Xiaomi which dominated suddenly drops to 4th place and needs to innovate - that is a sign of a healthy market.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#35

Post by frozenport »

Fucking non-sense, American's strive to create products that are different. The Chinese stereotype is to copy those. The copies are often not cost equivalent won't perform the same function as the original. Further it is often done with the full intent of tricking people, for example knock off Apple stores, Italian clothing etc.

In absolute terms the average Chinese person can't afford higher quality items.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#36

Post by _ea1k »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US.

I have only managed to use Android Pay a couple of times and the store that I did that with has removed it since then.

When it works, it is approximately the same level of annoyance as a credit card. When it fails, it is so much worse. I just don't see it taking off here in its current form.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#38

Post by daveFNbuck »

_ea1k wrote: post #36
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. I have only managed to use Android Pay a couple of times and the store that I did that with has removed it since then. When it works, it is approximately the same level of annoyance as a credit card. When it fails, it is so much worse. I just don't see it taking off here in its current form.

Mobile payments are much faster and easier than the credit card chip in my experience at places that have both options.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#39

Post by seanmcdirmid »

thablackbull wrote: post #34
mahyarm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but I suppose I am more commenting on the difference in attitude and execution. While services like Android/Watsapp were created in the West and do service the lower end market, they still follow the "leader", isn't seen by the population as "cool/hip/etc." Even with credit cards, there are many merchants here that don't accept them (especially Amex) and Visa because of the…

Chinese banks are pretty bad innovation wise, which is why it took tencent and alibaba to run this through. Even unionpay, with lower fees, fails to catch on because the banks kind of suck. Try dealing with a fraud report to Icbc, for example.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#40

Post by rodgerd »

_ea1k wrote: post #36
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. I have only managed to use Android Pay a couple of times and the store that I did that with has removed it since then. When it works, it is approximately the same level of annoyance as a credit card. When it fails, it is so much worse. I just don't see it taking off here in its current form.

> Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US.

You have got to be kidding. Handing my card over to someone who disappears off with it? Those bloody awful faux-pens to sign on an LCD? That's your idea of easy to use?

Paying for things in the US feels like the stone ages.

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