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On being the employee who “needs improvement”

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Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#191

Post by Scarblac »

sverhagen wrote: post #12
Scarblac wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between a one on one and speaking with your boss? I use them as synonyms.

Managers need to be available when things happen. I mean, they have other meetings, but during the day they should be able to give or receive "immediate" feedback; don't wait until the scheduled weekly (if you're that lucky) one-on-ones. However, if everybody is busy, and there's no immediate need to walk into each other's (virtual) office, it's good to have the scheduled interactions, to make sure you're still align…

In my situation, my boss is one of the 10 other people in the same office (when he isn't in meetings). All of us ask each other quick questions but try not to hold longer discussions there, because it disturbs everybody else. So more than that becomes a "one on one" in the discussion room. Nothing scheduled.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#192

Post by pasbesoin »

humanrebar wrote: post #5

I don't know what the motivations for the bosses in this story were, but in corporate America personal improvement plans are fundamentally about gearing up to fire someone more than any actual improvement. When defending yourself against a wrongful termination lawsuit, it looks good to courts to say, "Look, we met every week, we had these conversations, and things didn't get better enough." In the story linked, it se…

Yep. U.S. "improvement plans": Accumulate actions and documentation to justify and CYA the action already planned.

If you ever face one of those, and you have the option to walk away and start something else / somewhere else, go. Just like the B.S. in the name, "improvement plan", anything they say that sounds positive about the action is most likely just being disingenuous.

I'll take all this back a step further: If you are not happy with the job, or have a lot of friction with your management, walk away. The sooner you get out, the better -- for your peace of mind, career, and reputation.

Real improvement is sadly lacking from many workplaces, these days. The HR ideal, again contrary to what they say and the ideals they "paint" in their rhetoric, is the completely fungible employee.

If you haven't experienced real improvement in the workplace and in your own career before seeing an "improvement plan", you certainly aren't going to see it, after.

Well, I guess there are the occasional exceptions. Don't count on being one.

Trust your gut. Even when the resulting action you need to take is "hard". Neglecting your intuition -- real intuition; you usually know it when it hits -- ends up being much harder, in the long run.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#193

Post by hiddenkrypt »

bitshepherd wrote: post #72

I've been on both ends of the spectrum, from being PIP'd out the door to never hear from them again -- after burning bridges to be there and dedicating years to the mission -- to getting multiple base salary increases in a year and "keep doing what you're doing, you're definitely getting noticed". Getting fired is definitely not the end of the world. In fact, I'd say it's more a measure of the employer/employee compa…

Unfortunately, the hard part of every subsequent interview with other employers is "So what happened at company X? You were fired, right?"

I've been through what the author is describing, but in an on-site office position. It's horrid. They're exactly right on how these processes poison all other interactions. My boss would call me in to ask if I was going to the company picnic, but the history meant that every "Hey, can you see me in my office real quick?" was a gut-wrenching terror moment, certain that I was getting fired or told off again, or something.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#194

Post by sctb »

urethrafranklin wrote: post #76

> I had been taking advantage of the freedom to prioritize family needs And olds wonder why they face employment discrimination.

Please don't violate the guidelines by posting uncivilly like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#195

Post by bitshepherd »

hiddenkrypt wrote: post #193
bitshepherd wrote: post #72

I've been on both ends of the spectrum, from being PIP'd out the door to never hear from them again -- after burning bridges to be there and dedicating years to the mission -- to getting multiple base salary increases in a year and "keep doing what you're doing, you're definitely getting noticed". Getting fired is definitely not the end of the world. In fact, I'd say it's more a measure of the employer/employee compa…

Unfortunately, the hard part of every subsequent interview with other employers is "So what happened at company X? You were fired, right?" I've been through what the author is describing, but in an on-site office position. It's horrid. They're exactly right on how these processes poison all other interactions. My boss would call me in to ask if I was going to the company picnic, but the history meant that every "Hey,…

It's easier to deal with than you think. Don't outright admit to a firing when the question comes up. I'm not saying make something up on the fly, because they'll smell the bullshit, but think of how you can spin your termination in a positive light. Leaving because a project was completed/cancelled or company priorities changed is generally seen positively, even if the truth is you were fired from one of those jobs for being incompatible with the rigors of the role.

If you're just coming out of a firing, the worst thing you can do is have a mea culpa moment of clarity when you're negotiating for your bottom line. You'll get the old standard, "thanks for your time", and away they go to the next person, who may have also been fired, but bent the truth in their favor to get the job.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#196

Post by ncallaway »

CydeWeys wrote: post #136
ncallaway wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We run an entirely remote company, and the cabin fever is definitely a real concern. If you ever have to be a remote worker in the future, I'd highly recommend getting a co-working space as it really helps fulfill a ton of those social needs. Your employer might even pay for some (or all) of the costs associated.

That's definitely the only way I would ever consider being remote full-time. Though at that point you're still working in an office, just not with your coworkers, so it's still inferior to on-site working in many respects. The biggest advantage I suppose is you can do it from a low CoL area.

I think the other advantage is it totally separate any concept of "butts in chair hours". Nobody in a coworking space is going to quietly judge you if you leave at 1pm, which would be more of a concern at an on-site location.

A co-working space gives you the option to have a social work space, but you get to choose each day (and even each hour) if that's what you want.

I think they other advantage is in a commute. You have many more options about where you want to be co-working than you do about where your company's location is. If your company is across town from you residence, and you have an hour commute you could find a co-working space that is closer to home.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#197

Post by softawre »

rev_null wrote: post #48
humanrebar wrote: post #5

I don't know what the motivations for the bosses in this story were, but in corporate America personal improvement plans are fundamentally about gearing up to fire someone more than any actual improvement. When defending yourself against a wrongful termination lawsuit, it looks good to courts to say, "Look, we met every week, we had these conversations, and things didn't get better enough." In the story linked, it se…

A less cynical viewpoint is that personal improvement plans give an employee time to job hunt.

I've made that comment to people when I've put them on a PIP before. We both knew what was going on...

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#198

Post by Sir_Substance »

crusso wrote: post #178
Sir_Substance wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Note that you used the passive voice, as though the circumstances are completely out of the employee's control. If you've been put on a PIP, it means your employer has decided if your work doesn't get better, they're going to fire you. Provided you haven't been phoning it in, this means you have to give an unsustainable amount in order to reach what they want from you. Seeing as how that's unsustainable, you're goin…

if your work doesn't get better, they're going to fire you How is that completely out of the employee's control? Provided you haven't been phoning it in And maybe they have, which means they can do something about it.

>How is that completely out of the employee's control?

Employers often ask too much of their employees. It's why unions exist.

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