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Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

independent.co.uk

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Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#61

Post by brianwawok »

senorjazz wrote: post #8
the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

Exactly this. You can't sit in a land of plenty and ask hungry people to not use their most valuable land for personal gain.

Yes, we all share one globe. Yes it would be for the benefit of the globe to protect these regions. But most decisions like this are economic decisions, and the economics support slash and burn.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#62

Post by abandonliberty »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60

The irony in this comment is astounding! You're literally forcing a moral perspective onto someone while in the same breath claiming that your moral perspective is that you shouldn't force views or standard onto others. That's so fucking contradictory it's literally asinine. --- To address your actual points: >And destroy their culture and way of living in the process? Why? We don't have any right to force on them wh…

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Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#63

Post by mythrwy »

louithethrid wrote: post #6

There will be the usual walk through the park of unusable vectors to solve this. The only thing that could stop this is direct action - meaning, editing organisms to resist humanity. Making trees fireproof, equipping animals with diseases. The only wulf to hold back man, is another man.

Fire is necessary for healthy forests. And although I am excited about the emerging prospects of genetic alteration I'm pretty sure it's not going to get as far as making carbon based lifeforms fireproof.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#64

Post by autokad »

vortico wrote: post #27
maxerickson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's barely any old growth forest left to cut in the US.

I'm not sure why you're downvoted because you're correct. But I suppose microcolonel's point is that capitalism has converted them to private forests for harvest. I should note that growing forests consume 10-11 times more CO2 than old growth forests, and the US is excellent at keeping growth rates as high as possible or a given tract of land.

when a forest grows, it consumes c02, when it dies, it returns it. its zero net.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#65

Post by SkyMarshal »

noddy1 wrote: post #13

sadly capitalism seems to be an incredibly effective and efficient way to completely destroy the rainforests. there does not seem to be any solution.

The solution is simple - buy up all the rainforest and preserve it. It's annoying that the US, EU, Asian nations etc don't do this.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#66

Post by thg »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60

The irony in this comment is astounding! You're literally forcing a moral perspective onto someone while in the same breath claiming that your moral perspective is that you shouldn't force views or standard onto others. That's so fucking contradictory it's literally asinine. --- To address your actual points: >And destroy their culture and way of living in the process? Why? We don't have any right to force on them wh…

- European colonization of America (you know, all those Native Americans that still have to live in shitty conditions),

- Roman conquerors,

- Serbian conquerors,

- Holy Land crusades,

- Nazi holocaust..

The list goes on and on. And it always comes down to the same reasons. People wanting to exert power over other people, "liberating" them. The church in particular is especially known for that. Most wars were fought over "my god is the one true god and you have to worship him".

Does it ever stop? How can you know that those people will agree with you about what's best for them? How can you know they want to be a part of society at all?

I'm all for giving them a choice, but forcing them to live the way we think is best for them, e.g. making them give up their way of living entirely to live in brick and mortar houses and having to work factory jobs, isn't helping, it's exerting power and destroying a culture.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#67

Post by nanomonkey »

autokad wrote: post #64
vortico wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you're downvoted because you're correct. But I suppose microcolonel's point is that capitalism has converted them to private forests for harvest. I should note that growing forests consume 10-11 times more CO2 than old growth forests, and the US is excellent at keeping growth rates as high as possible or a given tract of land.

when a forest grows, it consumes c02, when it dies, it returns it. its zero net.

Not necessarily, if one make bio-char from the wood the carbon is stable for ~10k years, even if buried in the soil (terra pretax). This can be done successfully during the gasification process for producing heat, syngas and electricity. Also any items made from the wood that do not rot will not release their CO2 for the lifetime of the product.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#68

Post by sumedh »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60

The irony in this comment is astounding! You're literally forcing a moral perspective onto someone while in the same breath claiming that your moral perspective is that you shouldn't force views or standard onto others. That's so fucking contradictory it's literally asinine. --- To address your actual points: >And destroy their culture and way of living in the process? Why? We don't have any right to force on them wh…

> We objectively know in many cases medicine and health care that is better for them. Full stop.

Except many of the indigenous people die because of diseases brought by modern man. Look up Andamanese.

> the land those people occupy represents a large earning for the other impoverished people in the country

Will you be happy if your home was destroyed to help the poor people of your country?

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#70

Post by jokoon »

diego_moita wrote: post #54
jokoon wrote: post #52

I predict that in the future, brazil will be invaded to stop logging so that those trees can keep making oxygen. I wonder, doesn't most oxygen come from those trees? I've read the expression "lung of the planet". Essentially it seems it's a matter of survival. Although increased CO2 concentration might also accelerate the growth of trees, so I don't really know.

> I predict that in the future, brazil will be invaded to stop logging so that those trees can keep making oxygen. As a Brazilian I say that this is just plain stupid in 3 different levels: 1) World diplomacy is or should be ruled by the principle of Westphalian Sovereignty: the idea that each nation is free to conduct its internal affairs as it pleases. 2) Brazil is the 5th largest country in the world, one of the 1…

I agree with you, but air has no borders.

And I'm not arguing for war.

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