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Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

independent.co.uk

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Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#41

Post by aaron695 »

thg wrote: post #40
aaron695 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another perspective would be that they attempted to blackmail How is it blackmail if it's a viable option they are going ahead with? Are you suggesting they are/were bluffing? > home to uncontacted Waorani people It is unconscionable we do not contact these people and bring them basics like modern medicine and education about proper hygiene. Basically they are animals in a zoo for our pleasure atm.

> It is unconscionable we do not contact these people and bring them basics like modern medicine and education about proper hygiene. And destroy their culture and way of living in the process? Why? We don't have any right to force on them what you think is 'better' for them. That's happened so often in history, it's time that people finally realize that they do way more harm than good by forcing their views and 'stan…

You mean the mens culture?

Most photo's I've seen have been young angry men.

I guess fair enough, they get to go back and control the rest. Not a bad life perhaps.

They don't die in childbirth. They get to rape without consequence (This has been documented)

They don't get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectovaginal_fistula

The world is getting a better place and continues to get better (documented). Yet people want to shut them out.

All because their 'culture' is interesting to us. ie a zoo.

At least in North Korea the world isn't happy about the situation. Here they love it.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#43

Post by gd1 »

senorjazz wrote: post #8
the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

Europe is greener now than 100 years ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/04...

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#44

Post by cpursley »

senorjazz wrote: post #8
the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

> The same of parts of the US.

Actually, there are more forests in North America than there were 100 years ago. Caveat: there are fewer old-growth forests and the tree diversity is not as great.

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stori...

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#45

Post by sytelus »

senorjazz wrote: post #8
the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

The model where rich countries keeping paying to poor countries in exchange of not cutting down their own forests is unworkable. If people there are looking for genuine progress then they have to build schools, bridges, cities and so on. You won't be able to say that hey you guys live like how you used 1000 years ago and here's few dollars.

However the bigger issue I think are the few evil people in those countries who look at its natural resources and see dollars instead. They just want to log, mine as much as they can, export it all out and basically make free money. Their business strategy is simple: buy off government personals, acquire natural resources that was supposed to belong to people and sell it off to other countries in the world. You are not going to be able to prevent this either.

One effective way to discourage this is put a worldwide ban of exported wood from Amazon. If major countries can come together on this then this could actually work.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#47

Post by [deleted] »

sytelus wrote: post #45
senorjazz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

The model where rich countries keeping paying to poor countries in exchange of not cutting down their own forests is unworkable. If people there are looking for genuine progress then they have to build schools, bridges, cities and so on. You won't be able to say that hey you guys live like how you used 1000 years ago and here's few dollars. However the bigger issue I think are the few evil people in those countries w…

[deleted]

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#48

Post by legulere »

microcolonel wrote: post #16
spodek wrote: post #10

What responsibility does a typical reader of HN have? What can a reader do?

Brazil is failing for roughly the same reasons as most of the rest of South America: excesses of state power, which are too attractive for business to pass up. The economy is depressed by excessive policy, the people have bigger problems than the destruction of the Amazon. In addition, because the government owns the woodland, there's basically no reason to replant or maintain, which means that if you want lumber you…

That's not the reason. Here in Bavaria most of the forests are in the hand of the state and there are growing forests since roughly 100 years.

More likely a driving force is the internalization of agriculture. All the cows and pigs raised in Europe are fed with south-American soy.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#49

Post by MicroBerto »

the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

Yet it's my car that's blamed for a rise in global carbon dioxide. Makes sense.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#50

Post by [deleted] »

microcolonel wrote: post #16
spodek wrote: post #10

What responsibility does a typical reader of HN have? What can a reader do?

Brazil is failing for roughly the same reasons as most of the rest of South America: excesses of state power, which are too attractive for business to pass up. The economy is depressed by excessive policy, the people have bigger problems than the destruction of the Amazon. In addition, because the government owns the woodland, there's basically no reason to replant or maintain, which means that if you want lumber you…

[deleted]
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