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Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

reuters.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#111

Post by gaius »

xxpor wrote: post #108
gaius wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when the elites adopt casual dress in their professional lives, what is left are much more subtle and hard-to-adopt class signifiers: manners of speaking, interests, childhood experiences, travel, etc The NYT had an article on this recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruinin... I took a friend with only a high school degree to lunch. Insensitively, I led her into a gourmet sandwich shop…

That op-ed was mocked mercilessly.

I'll wager it cut pretty close to the bone for some.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#112

Post by cbanek »

gaius wrote: post #15
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

I worked on the American trading floor of a Swiss bank. After the crisis, Zürich decided to reign in us free-wheelers. So they came out with a new dress code [1]: "Among the 'dos' and 'don’ts' for women: 'Make sure to touch up hair regrowth regularly if you color your hair.' Men are commanded to, 'Schedule barber appointments every four weeks to maintain your haircut shape.' Neither sex is allowed to 'allow their und…

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

So to get the tech vibe, start giving out free Goldman Sachs t-shirts and golden colored jeans to the techies. If you give it away for free, all the techies will start wearing them all the time.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#113

Post by jldugger »

wildmusings wrote: post #77

If you view human beings as perfectly rational machines then dress codes make no sense, but that's not what we are. Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind. It reminds you that your work is serious and that different standards apply to how you act and talk than in your casual personal life. If you dress to work the way you'd show up to a dive bar, then you're that much closer to behaving like you do a…

> Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind. It reminds you that your work is serious and that different standards apply

I wonder, if appearances matter that much, would your staff believe that they can be publicly wrong, admit mistakes, or take any risks that would lead to either scenario? Would they ever ask a question, when it signals they don't already know everything? It seems like once you take on such a formal dress code persona, the ethics of "serious business" might strangle your company's long term survival odds.

> In a society that values formal dress, you can signal your intent to move up the social hierarchy by how you dress yourself. If you want to become an elite, then dress like one and people will take you seriously.

IMO, when a peer dresses formally, I trust them less. It signals an endorsement that appearances matter more than results, and that promotion up the social ladders is important enough to you that you might end up screwing me over if given the chance.

Ideally, social mobility shouldn't rely on the promoting the richest person up to managers and executives.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#114

Post by jldugger »

wildmusings wrote: post #110
xxpor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That op-ed was mocked mercilessly.

That's sometimes a sign that you're onto something. Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh. The sandwich shop example is a little weak, but I agree with Brook's point. There is a cultural segmenting of American society into the top 20% and the rest, and it's a strong barrier to social mobility. At the college I attended, there was a clear social barrier between the kids from upper middl…

>Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh.

_Is_ mocked mercilessly, and I don't think he's got the last of anything yet.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#115

Post by arcanus »

praulv wrote: post #87

Are salaries in IB tech on that level today? I doubt even a senior quant hedge fund / HFT firm developer makes anywhere near the quoted $400k.

I think 400 is likely attainable for the hedge funds, no idea about other fields. The HFT guys pay about 250 (total comp, e.g, salary and bonuses) for a newly minted PhD.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#116

Post by OJFord »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

Common dress absolutely drives a certain esprit de corps . The irony in my example is that the corporate code ruined the informal one we'd developed over the years (white dress shirt, fleece or vest and brown shoes with tan slacks or black shoes with light pinstripes). Before the rebellion, I could identify, on the street, our teams (and who were the interns--black suits with skinny ties, almost all of them). Afterwa…

> white dress shirt

It would seem that as an American you refer to a white shirt - but what do you term that which I (as a Briton) would call a dress shirt? (Worn with evening, or the most formal of morning attire. That is, with your -ahem- tuxedo!)

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#117

Post by mvid »

ptero wrote: post #40
corporateslave2 wrote: post #2

compensation for engineers is still lower at Goldman than at tech firms, nice try Goldman.

That pendulum swings back and forth. Currently AI/tech is on top but I would not bet it will stay like this forever

How far back do you have to go for finance to beat tech in pay?

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#118

Post by johan_larson »

samstave wrote: post #32
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

You're a part of the same team and you need to wear these outfits which you will likely never wear outside of work, but the huge bonus goes to the client favoring sales team, and no - we won't pay for the garb we require you to maintain the illusion that we are all equals! Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. Although, I noticed the sale force o…

> Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress.

Things aren't quite as loose as you seem to think. If you want to see where the boundaries are, start gradually dressing more and more informally, and note when you start drawing criticism from your manager and senior coworkers. I expect you'll get more attention than you want if you were to come to work shirtless, say.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#119

Post by DanBC »

johan_larson wrote: post #118
samstave wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a part of the same team and you need to wear these outfits which you will likely never wear outside of work, but the huge bonus goes to the client favoring sales team, and no - we won't pay for the garb we require you to maintain the illusion that we are all equals! Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. Although, I noticed the sale force o…

> Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. Things aren't quite as loose as you seem to think. If you want to see where the boundaries are, start gradually dressing more and more informally, and note when you start drawing criticism from your manager and senior coworkers. I expect you'll get more attention than you want if you were to come to work sh…

Or go the other way and turn up in a suit.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#120

Post by walshemj »

samstave wrote: post #32
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

You're a part of the same team and you need to wear these outfits which you will likely never wear outside of work, but the huge bonus goes to the client favoring sales team, and no - we won't pay for the garb we require you to maintain the illusion that we are all equals! Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. Although, I noticed the sale force o…

Brown in town "shudders" the horror the horror
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