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Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

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Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#61

Post by 09bjb »

treehau5 wrote: post #45
notadoc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and…

> That's it. Actually, you scratched the surface, but it goes so much further than that -- that sadly most of our modern universities have lost sight of. I've posted this in previous comments, but universities are actually suppose to help build more just societies -- an idea Plato describes as the purpose of university, and echoed by many chancellors across the country. "The goal of university education is to help bu…

I think this is what everyone is missing. If we're treating college strictly as a financial ROI calculation (which, partly, it is) it's obviously getting dicier by the year. This is exacerbated by Colleges and Universities treating every major from Economics to Cultural Studies as if they held roughly equal career prospects (they obviously don't).

Yes, it is a luxury to have the time to take a step back and consider your own society from a wider lens than "how can I beter secure my financial future this week." But without experiences like College, gap years, travel, and other "frivolities," you'll most likely end up as yet another short-sighted member of upper class who's spent a majority of their lifetime's creative power accumulating and hoarding wealth. Many don't have the bandwidth for both personal security and a strong social conscience, and I don't blame them for it...but I sure wish there were more with that ability.

Money is a very powerful tool and 18 is usually not old enough to be done with the formative experiences that will determine what you do with that power.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#62

Post by sanderjd »

stale2002 wrote: post #55
pirocks wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for being edgy, but please tell me where I can get jobs training for being a doctor, lawyer, etc. that isn't college. Regardless of what you think college is, college currently is primarily jobs training.

That is a small percentage of the population. Most people who went to college are not now working in an industry where a degree is literally required by law.

It is also not the most efficient way to achieve the required training for those jobs. We could have future doctors and lawyers go straight to trade schools focused solely on those professions, and likely shave a couple years off their total education. But most people in our society agree that we like our doctors and lawyers to have the breadth that an undergraduate degree is intended to provide.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#63

Post by concede_pluto »

Retra wrote: post #33
weirdstuff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less and less the case, as weird as that sounds. I'm finishing my degree not because I'm learning anything, but too many managers (and academics) have point-blank told me they just want to see that I've been "initiated".

If you're not learning anything, that's your own decision. Paying for education is paying for access . If you're paying for access to people that you choose not to interact with, then that's it's own brand of stupid.

I never met any of our professors of journalism or dance. Everyone at college is paying for a bundle of credentials and access to experts in many unrelated fields, and nobody uses all of it.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#64

Post by hanklazard »

sanderjd wrote: post #62
stale2002 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a small percentage of the population. Most people who went to college are not now working in an industry where a degree is literally required by law.

It is also not the most efficient way to achieve the required training for those jobs. We could have future doctors and lawyers go straight to trade schools focused solely on those professions, and likely shave a couple years off their total education. But most people in our society agree that we like our doctors and lawyers to have the breadth that an undergraduate degree is intended to provide.

I don't really care if my thoracic surgeon has a strong grasp of microeconomics or 19th Century British Lit. I only care that s/he has good medical training and experience.

Note: I'm a doctor.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#65

Post by closeparen »

pirocks wrote: post #43
notadoc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and…

Sorry for being edgy, but please tell me where I can get jobs training for being a doctor, lawyer, etc. that isn't college. Regardless of what you think college is, college currently is primarily jobs training.

Graduate and professional school are different animals. They, like the workforce, have a strong preference for people who have first gone to college, but not necessarily because they have dependencies on particular college classes.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#66

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #51
pirocks wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for being edgy, but please tell me where I can get jobs training for being a doctor, lawyer, etc. that isn't college. Regardless of what you think college is, college currently is primarily jobs training.

You're conflating college with professional school.

Colleges conflate college with professional school. The first time I visited my alma mater as a high school senior, I told them I wanted to be a programmer when I grew up, and they said "You'll want our computer science program, then." Nobody ever recommended me to a technical school instead, or told me that the CS program would teach me very basic programming, lots of academically interesting stuff about operating systems and electronics and math, and practically nothing that prepared me for a career.

They were perfectly happy to take my money and let me believe that I was learning professional skills.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#67

Post by xxSparkleSxx »

goldfeld wrote: post #30

Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), a nice option for those who can afford it. Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship, it's an evil of our consumerist age. Your kid would probably rather participate in society at large than in your suicidal runway idea of a romanticized youth of m…

Congrats on being so dumb you needed to be spoon fed books to do a job? I know this is offensive, but I'm really tired of dumb people projecting their stupidity on everyone else! Open your mind and realize people are different than you.

I don't know what you think college is. For most people of above average intelligence it is not an efficient use of their time until you consider the bullshit that is required to even get a decent job or do interesting work. College is a really shitty way to learn and progress as a human, but with the bullshit companies stipulate it becomes "a worthwhile investment."

I would also argue that if you are not good at independent learning then it may be worthwhile as well.

If it became illegal to check for college degrees/ask for college degrees during the hiring process, we'd find out the true value of college very quick. I bet it's less than 20% as valuable as we believe.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#68

Post by overcast »

Waterluvian wrote: post #58

I have an "after highschool" fund. My parents called this a university fund. But I'm communicating it as money to use to figure out what you want to do with your life. My kids can use it to do whatever, so long as they can make a rational case for how they intend on spending it. They'll also have to endure lots of dad talks and dad advice to make use of this resource. If I've done my job as a parent well, I won't hav…

"If I've done my job as a parent well, I won't have to worry about policing the "proper" use of this money."

Except they still have to come up with a rational case, and endure lots of dad talks, and dad advice before they can use it.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#69

Post by eropple »

hanklazard wrote: post #64
sanderjd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also not the most efficient way to achieve the required training for those jobs. We could have future doctors and lawyers go straight to trade schools focused solely on those professions, and likely shave a couple years off their total education. But most people in our society agree that we like our doctors and lawyers to have the breadth that an undergraduate degree is intended to provide.

I don't really care if my thoracic surgeon has a strong grasp of microeconomics or 19th Century British Lit. I only care that s/he has good medical training and experience. Note: I'm a doctor.

You don't care if your surgeon has been exposed to the idea of opportunity costs and given a framework for thinking about them structurally?

That's pretty weird, Doc.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#70

Post by tptacek »

sanderjd wrote: post #60
rayiner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and ideas, and to develop habits that are generally beneficial to any life or intellectual pursuit. That's it. In short, it was designed as a lux…

I don't see the connection between the first part of your response and the second part. Yes, it was designed as a luxury for rich kids to get a leg up in adulthood in all the ways your parent mentioned, and then society realized that maybe it shouldn't just be the rich kids getting that luxury, maybe smart and / or hard working but not rich kids should also have a chance at that luxury. Of course it turns out to be e…

It's worth keeping in mind in these discussions that tuition and expenses aren't the only cost of college attendance; four years of opportunity cost in earning are also involved. We can drive tuition costs to zero and still the overwhelming majority of selective school attendees will be from high-earning families.
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