Live data from Hacker News

On being the employee who “needs improvement”

virtuouscode.com

51–60 of 198 posts

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#52
post #18

I don't know what the motivations for the bosses in this story were, but in corporate America personal improvement plans are fundamentally about gearing up to fire someone more than any actual improvement. When defending yourself against a wrongful termination lawsuit, it looks good to courts to say, "Look, we met every week, we had these conversations, and things didn't get better enough." In the story linked, it se…

I think that is a somewhat cynical view of the matter; I appreciate that "American Work Ethics" are highly flawed and mostly theatrics (I say this as an American expat who has experienced work from all over the globe), but as much as there is management theatrics in the US, there's also a lot of "woe is me" from employees when they're disciplined. I'd really hate to see how the author of the piece would have reacted…

Unfortunately it seems that the same smiley, inoffensive, A-for-effort mentality that exists in our school system has fully invaded the corporate world.

I experienced this personally after talking to a report about their absenteeism. Within a day I received a lengthy email from them complaining about my directness. That 30 second exchange was escalated to management; they agreed that my feedback was justified (the employee in question had missed our team's only recurring meeting for the past month) but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them.

I can't help but see similarities when I read this article. Speak directly to someone and they'll get their feelings hurt. Sugarcoat it and they'll claim that you weren't clear enough. Casually hint at the issue and they'll claim you were passive aggressive.

Something is fundamentally wrong with an environment where adults can't have honest and direct interaction for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#53
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it was Andy Grove who suggest no more than 6-8 direct reports for this reason.

6-8 sounds like too many. Anyways, in addition to probably being unfit for people management, it sounds like it would take away all my coding time.

The latter statement proves the former. A good manager prioritizes management over work that an individual contributor might do. If that doesn't suit a person, they're likely not fit for management.

I've seen many managers fail for this reason.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are utterly and completely useless. You should speak with your boss continuously, regardless of the 1 on 1s. Maybe it's a coincidence but with all the worst bosses that I had we had 1 on 1s. It's just a way to hide their incompetence in my opinion.

In my experience 1 on 1s are nice because it allows me and my boss to speak in private consistently. When we are both in cubicles it's hard for me to have candid conversations if I know everyone is listening. It probably depends on the person but I have always really liked one on one meetings.

It also establishes a pattern so that other employees don't automatically assume that seeing you and the boss in a meeting room means that you're having a candid conversation.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#55

What an interestingly bizarre article. What we're all missing is how these things were presented - were the managers being unreasonable dicks in the way they talked about "Mismatched expectations" about availability aside, what does the author expect when they're supposedly letting their team down? I've had a number of conversations with managers were they've told me I'm letting them down and I'm always incredibly gr…

That's not what happened though. Obviously we only see one side of it, but this reads like they suddenly accuse him of being bad, and instead of letting him self-correct, humiliate him by letting juniors micro-manage him. And gang up on him, 2 against one.

Funny, it seems like everyone interprets the blog post differently. Life is a mirror in that way I suppose; those with victim complexes can find offense in everything.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#56

If you get to the point that you're on a personal improvement plan, you should immediately look for other work. There are no circumstances in which it will turn around.

There are no circumstances in which it will turn around

Note that you used the passive voice, as though the circumstances are completely out of the employee's control.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#57
post #31

Leaving aside the clear miscommunication that led to the "needs improvement" state first, it seems to me the management did just fine after that: 1. They quickly and clearly told the employee of the problem. 2. They proposed a course of action 3. Their proposal worked (at the end they were happy with his work). It was not pleasant for sure (for both sides, I bet), but would it be worse to say nothing and terminate hi…

My thoughts exactly - this is a clear case of the process working as intended.

And in general I agree with other posters that the success (3) is rare. In general if one gets on the "needs improvement" plan it is time to get out on your own. In theory it doesn't have to be this way, but in practice it does.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#58

I honestly think your employers have been super generous already, one ought to know what is expected of him/her and realise they shouldn't leave themselves open to criticism by abusing the trust of the employer, always be in a positive balance, put in more than you take out and make sure it gets visibility. I wouldn't keep someone who is not performing for whatever reason, because by the time I lose trust in that per…

If a boat veers off course and you don't touch the tiller, you're a bad sailor. If an employee veers off course and you wait until you're ready to terminate them before you say anything, you're a bad manager. And it's not always them, it's sometimes you. Have you never thrived under one manager, been reshuffled and then suffered under another?

Mediocrity cannot be remedied, unless you are a big company where you have dedicated departments to cater for these sort of people ( and by the way, they aim to accomplish the same outcome, just a little bit slower and more paperwork). All I am saying is, an employee has no business performing a job he/she cannot do unless he is a trainee with a good attitude. I leave this comment section with one last nugget of wisdom :

There are more skilled and deserving individuals looking for jobs that they can't get because a bad manager is holding on to a mediocre employee.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#59
post #31

Leaving aside the clear miscommunication that led to the "needs improvement" state first, it seems to me the management did just fine after that: 1. They quickly and clearly told the employee of the problem. 2. They proposed a course of action 3. Their proposal worked (at the end they were happy with his work). It was not pleasant for sure (for both sides, I bet), but would it be worse to say nothing and terminate hi…

My thoughts exactly - this is a clear case of the process working as intended.

The intended process ends with the employee being fired. The only reason to do a PIP is to cover the companies ass when they get fired or encourage them to quit. This person frankly messed up by staying at the company.

The correct way to do this if they actually want to let the employee improve:

- Ask the employee if there is anything going on with their life - Ask them how they feel they are doing and validate them - Tell them about some of your concerns - Let them explain their side of your concerns - Propose a way to improve the situation where both parties are happy - Reiterate that they are happy with the work otherwise

If the employee improves, encourage them and make them feel safe in the room. Repeat the steps if the situation does not improve. If this doesn't work start the official PIP, i.e. start slowly firing them.

Re: On being the employee who “needs improvement”

#60
post #56

If you get to the point that you're on a personal improvement plan, you should immediately look for other work. There are no circumstances in which it will turn around.

There are no circumstances in which it will turn around Note that you used the passive voice, as though the circumstances are completely out of the employee's control.

They more or less are. They've already decided they want to get rid of you. If they actually wanted to keep you around they'd have had a bunch of more casual conversations about what you need to do.
Post reply on HN