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The Vatican's Latinist

newcriterion.com

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any advice for someone like me who has never taken Latin but would like to learn?

My advice would be to have reasonable expectations. Latin isn't easy to learn - you can't practise talking to real people, it has plentiful grammar, there isn't so much vocabulary (relatively) but many words have a vast variety of meanings depending on context, and sentence structure is entirely alien to English speakers. It is, essentially, quite hard (though easier than Classical Greek). I studied Latin to degree l…

> you can't practise talking to real people

Not to native speakers, but to semifluent and (rarely) fluent 2L speakers, you can. While there's always an argument that the loss of native speakers radically impoverishes our sense of a language and its potential, and that what we can figure out from writing is just a portion of what the language used to consist of, you can definitely have fun practicing spoken Latin with experts and dramatically improve your understanding of the language.

There are several spoken Latin programs, some of which use immersion methods, mentioned in the article. I spent a week at one of Nancy Llewellyn's programs about a decade ago, and mehercule can she speak fluently and extemporaneously about anything she chooses in Latin. :-)

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that, the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter, which is a concept pretty much entirely foreign to many familiar with English prose.

> the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter What do you mean by this? The closest I can come to making sense of it is that some Latin words obligatorily appear as the second word in the sentence, but it seems like you must mean something different?

I'm guessing that the issue is just that in poetry many authors are willing to use word orders and constructions that would otherwise be regarded as questionable or ungrammatical—"metri causa".

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#43

I wish I had had a teacher like that when Latin was being shoved down my throat. I so rebelled, I knew less Latin in my sixth year than I did in my fourth. The wasted hours of rosa, rosam, rosae, rosa . However, it did enable me to become fluent in Spanish in two months. Fluent enough to teach high school physics, in Spanish, at the Instituto Americano of La Paz.

no te creo que lograste fluencia en dos meses incluso con el conocimiento de latin...

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice would be to have reasonable expectations. Latin isn't easy to learn - you can't practise talking to real people, it has plentiful grammar, there isn't so much vocabulary (relatively) but many words have a vast variety of meanings depending on context, and sentence structure is entirely alien to English speakers. It is, essentially, quite hard (though easier than Classical Greek). I studied Latin to degree l…

To add to that, the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter, which is a concept pretty much entirely foreign to many familiar with English prose.

Word order in general being at the whim of the writer is the bane of the modern learner, although we can be sure that this is a stylistic device and that the spoken word order would have been much more standardised. There's a wonderful line in "The Loom of Language" (wonderful book, wish I could find my copy) berating "the crossword puzzles of Cicero" vs the language he'd use to bawl out his slave.

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that, the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter, which is a concept pretty much entirely foreign to many familiar with English prose.

> the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter What do you mean by this? The closest I can come to making sense of it is that some Latin words obligatorily appear as the second word in the sentence, but it seems like you must mean something different?

I'm pulling from my studies of ~10 years ago, but IIRC there are points (noun and adjective endings?) where diacritical marks can change the meaning of the sentence. Unlike, say, Spanish, these marks are not written, and frequently have to be interpreted from language cues, including the meter.

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that, the grammar (and thus the meaning) is sometimes driven by the meter, which is a concept pretty much entirely foreign to many familiar with English prose.

Quite. Though, if by any chance you have reached a sufficient mastery of English prosody to understand the iambic pentameter, the dactylic hexameter really isn't such a stretch, notwithstanding one being based on stress and the other weight.

I so enjoyed the pattern-matching puzzle that I found preparing for the AP Latin (Virgil) exam to be.

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#48
> Foster’s model has proven to be imitable (though his energy and expertise is not—Paideia last year used six teachers to cover what Reginaldus would do alone).

I wonder if that can be ported to eg math education?

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. Language is alive, and learning words is much easier for me if they're in context. I'm not learning Latin, but I am learning Chinese. I wrote http://pingtype.github.io to put spaces between words, colours for tones, pinyin romanisation, and a literal translation on the line below. I could probably do the same for Latin. First I'm doing English-to-Chinese (the other way), then I might try Taiwanese…

Nifty. I went looking for google translate style audio, and found the Advanced > Audio button, and hit a bug. Page load; for Chinese input, enter "中文 輸入"; Translate; Audio; surprised by English input and Chinese spaced having cat and ffmpeg command lines. Feature idea: permit repeatedly playing the audio for just a part of the phrase. Often when using ggl translate, I want to rehear just a syllable or word I'm unsure…

Sorry! Thank you for exploring the Advanced features, I put a lot of effort into those, but they need more explaining. I'm pleased that you actually looked at it though :).

The audio feature doesn't actually play audio. It's supposed to generate input commands to put into ffmpeg. I would write more documentation, but my priority is to get the existing documentation translated to Chinese. I asked 4 friends over the past 3 months, all have promised to do it, but only one of them translated one page.

I don't think there's a way to do what you're asking using only client-side JavaScript. I would need a server to generate an audio file for you. Unfortunately, I don't have the money for that. The most I could do would be to generate an M3U playlist file, which you could then save and navigate using the chapter feature of your music player.

Re: The Vatican's Latinist

#50

> What the book cannot give, of course, is the experience of [...] strolling through the streets of Rome with him. For that we will need his like—or to wait for the Reginaldians to start writing memoirs. Shouldn't someone point these folks at VR headsets and livestreaming stabilized 360deg video? It doesn't matter that he can't walk and is stuck in the US. With someone to be his walking and conversation companion in…

Morning-after edit: streamed phone video, or even just a conversation with photos, would be much easier.
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