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Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

latimes.com

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Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#111

Post by jasode »

eric_h wrote: post #25
whatok wrote: post #13

I do not see what forcing a class on someone like this (especially at their age) will accomplish. Does anyone really think a semester long course is going to make her go "well, gee whiz, guess I shouldn't discriminate against those Asians anymore"?

Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. A course on Asian cultures may actually have some effect of humanizing the asian people for this particular bigot.

>Honestly I think it's better than nothing.

Actually, I think the forced class makes the situation worse. My life experiences tells me classes and other attempts at "re-education" only hardens the attitudes for hatred and discrimination.

For a person to change their racism/homophobia, it requires interaction with another human that triggers an emotional component. For example, a person who despises gays has a child grow up to be gay which changes their mind. Or a somebody who hates blacks later ends up stuck in the front line of a war with other blacks watching each others' backs and it eliminates (or lessens) the prejudice.

It doesn't mean that positive human interactions will always "cure" everyone but it seems to be more effective than classes.

Classes are more useful for cultural/etiquette topics (e.g. how to hold business cards with 2 hands in Japan).

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#112

Post by rdiddly »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #108
rdiddly wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link says the host agreed to the extra people etc., leaving only racism and forgetfulness as reasons for welching on the agreement.

It is missing some messages right before the racist remarks.

OK and where are those?

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#113

Post by mikeash »

throwaway7312 wrote: post #95
mikestew wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All well and good, none of which is relevant to the story. What is relevant is that the host documented that she doesn’t want to rent to Asians. That’s why the host ended up paying $5K, not because the guest was a pain in the ass. Yes, if she’d just said, “you’re a pain in the ass, I’m not renting to you”, all would be well. But some people just can’t help themselves, I guess (I’m picturing the host as some letters-t…

The host rented to the guest knowing she was Asian from the start. She didn't have a problem with her race at that point. Things only got nasty once they got nasty. If you had a nasty fight with someone, and it ended with that person saying, "Well, it's because you're white (or Indian or whatever you are). That's why," would you immediately assume this person hated everyone of your race? Or would you assume you'd got…

In your scenario, I would absolutely assume that they hated my race, and that they had merely hidden it. Overt racism is not tolerated in a lot of places, so racists usually learn to hide it. Sometimes it comes out under stress.

Non-racists don't suddenly start making racial comments they don't believe just because they're in a nasty fight.

Racial discrimination doesn't have to be absolute. Saying it can't be discrimination because she didn't reject this guest up-front is nonsensical. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#114

Post by rhcom2 »

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #100
savvyraccoon wrote: post #58

Stupid of the host to act like that and inexcusable, got what she deserved etc, but.... This is one sided reporting. First of all Barker accepted the booking knowing who the guest would be, from her name, profile etc. Then there were frequent polite comms where the booking was changed, renegotiated. Two extra guests were added. Then the guest asked to bring a small dog, and the host said no because they have a pitbul…

I agree with you. Barker got a bad deal. She made the mistake of using racial language that the media could latch onto. Anyone who objectively looks at the situation would conclude that Suh was a spoiled entitled brat who exploited this situation. It's disgusting how she used her crocodile tears to exploit the media and the people.

> Suh was a spoiled entitled brat who exploited this situation

I really don't see how you conclude that. Barker approve the deal then reneged with racist language. What makes Suh entitled or spoiled? If Barker didn't like the deal she had plenty of time to cancel or just say no upfront.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#115

Post by mikeash »

mabbo wrote: post #54
bluetidepro wrote: post #22

The host deserves a larger fine for her stupidity alone. She told the women who reserved straight up that she "wouldn't rent to an Asian." Why not just deny the request, and keep your bigotry comments to yourself about the "why." It's one thing that the host was racist, but if she would have just kept that to herself, it probably wouldn't have got her a fine. So not only is the host a racist, but she is clearly an id…

> Why not just deny the request, and keep your bigotry comments to yourself I don't want you to think that I'm saying this is as simple as "blame Trump". It's not that simple. But it seems related to me. It used to be that you could be a bigot like this and so long as you didn't make it public, loud, obvious, no one really cared that much. No one liked it, but no one cared. Now we're in a time when America has electe…

The host outright said it was related to Trump. I see no reason not to believe her.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#116

Post by mikeash »

fav_collector wrote: post #85

I think people should be able to discriminate for anything they want when letting others into their home whether it's a business related visit or not. However I think that people should be punished for explicitly commenting on protected classes in a hateful or angry manner in business related situations.

I'm fine with discrimination when it's non-business guests. But once you invite people into your home for business purposes, why shouldn't the same protections apply as they would for any other business? If you feel a need to discriminate in your home, don't use your home for business.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#117

Post by TallGuyShort »

chickenfries wrote: post #81
TallGuyShort wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree they're scum, do you want to sleep in a home occupied by someone who has overwhelming hate for your race? Would you want to eat a wedding cake someone was legally forced to bake for you?

So should we go back to white only hotels? Black folks should have to stay where they can find black hotels or black airbnb hosts?

>> So should we go back to white only hotels?

Where people want to have a white only hotel today, they can still effectively have one. They just have to be slightly more careful.

>> Black folks should have to stay where they can find black hotels or black airbnb hosts?

Not what I said at all. I don't think blacks should have any restrictions on where they travel on the basis of their race. But if I was black and I checked into a B&B and got the distinct albeit subtle impression that the person was a racist and only accomodated me because it was too late for them to back out with legal ramifications, would I feel comfortable spending the night and eating the breakfast they prepared for me? Not remotely.

I wouldn't vote yes on a ballot measure to repeal all laws against discrimination, but I'm also not entirely convinced that they have much to do with actually causing the progress that's been made for minorities.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#118

Post by mikeash »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #109
sqeaky wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are presuming people or racism is logical. It is common for someone to say one thing then mean another, it is so common we even have words for it. It is also entirely possible the racist person did this intentionally to maximize the inconvenience to the renter. There are hundred other ways to explain this. Some racist and some not racist, but dropping phrases as overtly racist as hers has a way of sounding truthf…

>dropping phrases as overtly racist as hers Which "words" are we talking about? Had she avoided saying "one word: Asian", this would not have been a story.

Don't leave out "I will not allow this country to be told what to do by foreigners."

I'm sure someone will try to argue that "foreigners" isn't racist because race and country of origin are different, but the intent is obvious enough.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#119

Post by eric_h »

jasode wrote: post #111
eric_h wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. A course on Asian cultures may actually have some effect of humanizing the asian people for this particular bigot.

>Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Actually, I think the forced class makes the situation worse. My life experiences tells me classes and other attempts at "re-education" only hardens the attitudes for hatred and discrimination . For a person to change their racism/homophobia, it requires interaction with another human that triggers an emotional component. For example, a person who despises gays has a child…

There's a very good chance you're correct, of course. I suppose my comment was just my general hopeful optimism coming out.

Really, though, how does one actually "deprogram" someone with opinions like this? Can it actually be done?

Casual racists are a toxic population whose opinions and behaviors in favor of said racism bring no value to society. How on earth do we eliminate it?

I used to think that the steamroller of progress and information would gradually eliminate racism and sexism and denial of science and logic as older generations died out, but the rise of the next generation of racists and MRAs and flat earthers seems to be a fairly strong counterpoint to that.

I fear for the future of humanity.

Re: Airbnb host must pay $5,000 for canceling reservation based on race

#120

Post by btilly »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #77
btilly wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find a good summary of the relevant rules at https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA . If it was a roommate request, then it is viewed differently. If the property was at most 3 units and the landlord lives there, then the landlord cannot advertise that they will discriminate on gender but the landlord is allowed to. (Who said that the laws had to make sense?)

Yeah if I'm going to get declined after going to the trouble of applying, or if I'm going to enter into a housing agreement with someone who hates me, I'd rather their advertisement be smothered in discriminatory epithets. Seriously.

But if you're just browsing past the ad, do you need reminding of how many discriminatory slimeballs there are out there?

I don't like the mentality that leads to this kind of confused legal situation. But if I squint sideways and pretend that I don't have a brain, I can kinda see how someone could have thought this a good idea.

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