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Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

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Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#231
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to be harsh because I've had years and years of experience dealing with IBM. Their tools are trash for the cost they want. The majority of their offerings are overengineered and prone to failure in a production setting. They are pros at selling to non-technical management, all the while IT employees get stuck dealing with the aftermath. We ended up getting stuck with the IBM version of work item management,…

"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM"

They get laid off for being making their department a black hole for money, though.

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#232
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps because they charged $60 million for it?

What I sincerely don't get about IT is why customers sign contracts where they fork over the mulah even when nothing of value is delivered to them . Why the actual fuck? I mean, if Delta ordered a super-advanced new fancy 787 as a tech demo, and Boeing came back with "sorry, our experts were unable to make anything work, so we're going to take all your money and not give you anything back", Delta would rightly tell B…

It is more complicated than "pay X, based upon accomplishing Y". Most IT shops insist upon not just taking on the sustaining operations after the initial rollout, but doing it their way as well. When using and administering the products are nearly as complex as using and administering operating systems, I strongly suspect what is happening is our ecosystems have gotten much more complex than in the past, but our way of delivering them has not kept up. This is why AWS is so popular; those packaged services "only comes in black" forcibly eliminate much of the administration and operations idiosyncrasies many IT organizations insist upon for on-prem deployments, and accommodating those idiosyncrasies comes with costs, one of which a huge blurring of where the vendor leaves off and the IT staff takes over.

A lot of IT products don't stand alone in their own stack, and the wild variance in integration points from one site to the next drives a lot of IT project complexities and costs. It doesn't help that many of these integration points are considered essential by various stakeholders within an IT and business organization, yet are not managed by the organization to a necessary quality level. I've worked with failures that trace back to an LDAP cluster sometimes not synchronizing one of its nodes with a password update, for example. Even after tracing through the entire product stack to an outside service we depend upon that the organization delivers (LDAP in this case), the IT staff insisted it was the product. Client rages about a shitty product, then when I figured out the root cause, it was "oops, never mind", no apologies. The directory services team never fixed the sync issue, and instead I ended up cobbling together my own monitoring and notification to detect the issue and notify the administration team.

The administrator they assigned to take on the product after I rolled it out did not have the skills to diagnose and work around that issue, especially as fast as I worked it (within a few days). Unfortunately, this is a common situation. "Knowledge Transfer" is then leaned upon to fill the gap, which of course will fall short of expectations. It is a separate discussion on "knowledge transfer" commonly being a euphemism to for "give me the TL;DR within 100 pages so I don't have to read the stack of manuals and support notes of this product, but still be good enough to quickly troubleshoot if the product falls down". A lot of this "integration point failures that appear on the surface as product failures" comes down to very sysadmin'y troubleshooting, crossing lots of different specialized IT domains, often working on the fly side-by-side with specialized admins and administrator guides of products you've never seen before. Very hard to find people who are that broad, deep, flexible, and cool under pressure.

What I've seen happen a lot is the product vendor successfully rolls out their product, the organization's staff take over, and the stability and usefulness gradually degrades over time. This makes it particularly difficult to say the product never delivered. Sometimes it happens quickly (within a year), and other times it happens slowly (over a decade). It was a combination of human factors that caused the goal to fall short. A lot traces back to organizations wanting to cut costs, and the quickest way to do that when adopting a product is say, "we'll have our own staff do the day-to-day work, instead of paying an outside organization to come in and do it, or hiring new staff who are already experienced with it".

It's a hot mess, and my hope is eventually the cloud delivery model pushes deeper interoperability across the industry's various ecosystems, and increasingly automate more integration efforts not just in the cloud but in other delivery modes. Or at the very least cloud providers commoditize and stabilize increasing chunks of infrastructure and devops that products rely upon.

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#233
post #214

Lotus Notes. Why this garbage of an email system is still perpetrated by IBM explains IBM. It worked back in 1999 but pity you if you're in a company still using it and the CIO still putting upgrade patches to it.

Still using it? We went from Gmail (for business) to Notes because IBM Sales managed to convince the leadership that they could track and file everything better in Notes. Now we have to deal with this shitshow of an app where it takes 10 clicks to open a message because you have to file it under a project first and good luck if you ever need to search for anything.

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#234
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what part of IBM you're in, but I can speak as someone in an i Series shop. The problem isn't the message. Everyone already drank the kool-aid. A lot of the problem is just the shoddy product, but really it boils down to the culture. Put out comprehensive documentation _on the indexable Internet_ and not in PDFs, because for christsake if I have to open another Red Book PDF I think I might kill myself. Make…

Thanks for the comment. I'm not very familiar with the Power team, but I'll find the right folks and forward your note.

Unless you are a master of corporate-fu: You're going to be so popular! :)

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I understand correctly, there was dirty/malformed data which was difficult to interpret, and when sent to a ML algorithm not tuned by a domain expert led to bad results. This applies to all ML work, why is Watson exempt from it? Conversely if this the canonical failure case, why's everyone so harsh on Watson?

> why's everyone so harsh on Watson? well we're talking a _cognitive_ platform that requires 60M$ of _manual_ tuning before it's useful, am I the only one that finds that weird?

> 60M$ of _manual_ tuning before it's NOT useful

Pedantic but important - the final product wasn't usable even after spending an obscene amount of money customizing it to the task

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#237
post #69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in sales, nor is my performance measured on any sales-related metric.

I have zero dog in this fight from a professional standpoint, but you should reflect on why your behavior is frustrating so many people here. A bunch of smart, technical people are venting and saying "IBM says a bunch of shit and doesn't deliver." You then come in and say, "I'm from IBM, tell me your concerns and they will be put in front of the right eyes. Change needs feedback." It completely lacks concreteness, hu…

From my perspective (not having a dog in this fight either), it's exactly the other way around. People are hurling undifferentiated abuse at IBM. IBM employee shows up, offering to engage. People are hurling personal abuse at them, refuse to offer specific criticism of the product.

Not exactly a display of maturity from this community.

> You need to figure that out on your own

Even IF an employee has a pretty clear idea themselves what needs to be improved, having a citable CUSTOMER opinion to that effect is going to vastly improve the chances of management listening.

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#238

Fundamental software problems here. Probably the reason why software is being marketed as service more and more. IBM might be moving a little too fast, especially from a sales perspective but their systems offer features that will define the future.

The problem is that their systems aren't very good so if it's just APIs then it's more than likely a cloud provider would provide similar APIs and eat their lunch. The only thing they seem to really be able to do in this space is consulting

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's understandable that people would be suspicious of a puff piece on 60minutes which provides no substantive information.

The people who care about the exact numbers and the audience for the 60 minutes piece are very different groups

There's obviously overlap, because people here have shown a dislike to the 60 minutes show.

Overall that probably helps the brand with some groups, and harms it with others (scientists, engineers) so you may have more work to convince them, though the puff pieces might help sell it at the exec level.

Re: Jefferies gives IBM Watson a Wall Street reality check

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't IBM buy Cloudant? And wasn't it based off of an Apache application? Not saying it's not good (I've never used it), but IBM can't really get any credit for this. They just happen to have bought a decent product and now they sell it.

Right, my intention by pointing out Cloudant wasn't to offer it as a counter-example (I personally have 0 experience with it), but rather to see if anyone might have some red flags to share, as I'm considering using Cloudant instead of hosting my own CouchDB instances for a new project I'm speccing out, and especially since nobody has mentioned it as a counter-example in this thread so far.

Disclaimer: this is a throwaway account, and I used to work for IBM.

I like Cloudant .. it is not too bad. In a recent project (after I left IBM), I needed to get a data tier up quickly and I actually used it for the initial POC. And yes, it was an acquisition by IBM. I was a bit worried that bluewashing would have made Cloudant crap but looks like they have managed to avoid it. The caveat I'd suggest is look closely at the pricing model. If you want QoS and scale, be careful of the pricing model. For small projects and projects that need fast completion (what project today doesn't?), it is actually very nice. You asked for caveats .. I think some of the language bindings were a bit out of date .. but since it uses REST calls, it wasn't too hard to bypass.

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