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China may match or beat America in AI

economist.com

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Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#101

Post by visarga »

cat199 wrote: post #33
visarga wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think China would have an advantage here. But the kind of special data only Google and FB have is mostly related to ads and people profiles. That's not the kind of data you need to advance AI. Instead, what is needed is user labeled images, videos, text, speech and of course, simulations (games, VR) for virtual robotics and reinforcement learning agents. These kinds of data and simulations are open sourced and…

> But the kind of special data only Google and FB have is mostly related to ads and people profiles. That's not the kind of data you need to advance AI. > Instead, what is needed is user labeled images, videos, text, speech. umm: google image search, all html embedded/related metadata, adwords itself serving as a refined metadata/tagging and ontology database building engine, recaptcha 'how many buildings are in this…

Everyone has access to image search results (from multiple providers). Ontologies such as DBpedia and WikiData with billions of triples are open source, don't see why they couldn't closely track closed-doors ontologies such as the one used by Google. The picture puzzles are useless - we already have superhuman ability to classify traffic signs and storefronts. Android debug data and map data are irrelevant for basic AI research.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#102

Post by dang »

dilemma wrote: post #96
chrnic27 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ResNet was developed by a purely Chinese team. And by luck. If they didn't do it, someone else would have done it, whether it be US, UK, or Canada. Proof? Look at the developments and publications from that same team. There are not consistent breakthroughs. This is similar to the stock market and investors. Someone will get lucky and win, but unless they can do it consistently, it's luck.

Spoken like a true racist.

There are similar problems on both sides of any nationalistic argument, and both sides routinely violate the rules here, as indeed you have been doing here and elsewhere. Would you please stop doing that?

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#103

Post by dang »

linkages wrote: post #40
rrggrr wrote: post #29

70% of the US budget is inexorably allocated to entitlements, interest on debt, and welfare. The rubicon of 100% US Debt-to GDP will soon be crossed. Many US states are hanging on to solvency by a thread. Corporations and banks have sequestered hundreds of billions in cash waiting for signs of US fiscal stability. And what does the media want to talk about? Russian spies and Chinese A.I. Rome burns and everyone is as…

China has 300%+ GDP to Debt ratio, collapsing economy, declining forex, fake GDP numbers, strict capital controls, internet censorship, middle income trap, authoritarian regime that brutalizes treatment of its own people, floods the world with cheap, shoddy products that destroys the manufacturing and community of other countries, pollution, poisonous food, poisonous water, mindwashing culture, allies with NK that se…

This sort of ideological rant isn't welcome here, and we've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to do this. It's not what the site is for.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#104

Post by dang »

throwawayecchai wrote: post #20
meri_dian wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't downvote, but curious: how do you know the Chinese VC's are fake?

By fake I mean fronts for the Chinese Gov. There have been numerous reports in NYTimes and other reputable media on this topic, including many that have been posted here on HN. Of course not all of them are such, but many are. Just look at the team behind many of these, team's credentials and experience, and in many cases their addresses and actual offices.

Throwaway accounts propagating dark insinuations about nefarious nations are really not what we're looking for here. Would you please stop?

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#108

Post by computerex »

visarga wrote: post #21
computerex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what does Wikipedia have to do with TensorFlow? I think you are over-simplifying AI. Yes, you can take pre-trained models are do useful things with them. But creating these models and training them initially on vast quantities of data still remains a challenge and has to be overcome by real engineers. Not anyone can do AI at scale.

> Not anyone can do AI at scale. For that you'd have to wait until next year. Many low level skills necessary in ML are being automated. It's getting closer to being easily used by hackers.

I'd like to see someone hack together AlphaGo.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#109

Post by dilemma »

dang wrote: post #102
dilemma wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a true racist.

There are similar problems on both sides of any nationalistic argument, and both sides routinely violate the rules here, as indeed you have been doing here and elsewhere. Would you please stop doing that?

What is my side? I don't want to break any rules here, please point out which posts have broken them so I can adjust.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#110

Post by erva »

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #87
erva wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but it could be a mistake to assume that innovation comes from academia. Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a convincing chapter (I think it is Chapter 13: Lecturing Birds to Fly) in his book "Antifragile" about this very thing. Then there are cultural differences that could be at play concerning innovation. It is a general observation that east asian cultures tend to suppress risk-taki…

> Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but it could be a mistake to assume that innovation comes from academia It isn't that innovation necessarily comes from academia, but that academia is a reflection of how wealthy and educated the population is. Innovation comes from the wealthy and the educated. So as china gets wealthier, they will innovate more. > It is a general observation that east asian cultures tend to…

> academia is a reflection of how wealthy and educated the population is

This is correct, but that doesn't mean causation. Look at any civilization and look at what came first wealth or academia. It seems to me that wealth creates academia.

> That's an "observation" based on racism and nonsense.

Saying something is "racist" does not constitute an argument. I didn't say whether it was "good" or "bad" to have a culture that promotes or suppresses risk taking...no one can. It is not "racist" to say that two things are not exactly the same.

> The things you need to "innovate" are wealth and security. Innovation is a luxury.

Dead wrong. Wealth and security create complacency. "Necessity is the mother of invention" is not just some stupid quip.

>What makes you think they won't?

I don't. My entire post was a postulation, which is why I used phrases such as "it could be", "general observation" and "there may be", etc. It appears that you are merely looking for a fight instead of having a conversation.

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