Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 349 posts

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#241

Post by jdmichal »

a_t48 wrote: post #58
rplst8 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are standardized efficiency measurements that all A/C manufacturers must conduct and publish in the US. You'll see terms like COP, EER, and SEER. Those allow you to compare pretty easily. Currently the minimum is a SEER of 13, but I've seen units as high as 22 advertised.

Higher is better in this case?

To elaborate on the "yes": SEER is a ratio of energy expended to energy moved. So SEER 13 means that the system spends one unit of energy to move 13. And you should expect a SEER 20 system to be twice as efficient as a SEER 10 system.

EDIT: I should mention that SEER uses different units for each part of the ratio -- BTUs of heat moved vs watt-hours expended. COP is dimensionless, and EER is just SEER but for a specific operating point. SEER extends the measurement through an entire "season", and so it theoretically gives a more realistic picture of overall efficiency.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#242

Post by npsimons »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #134
djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

I think your thinking is a little short sighted. Yes, on a 20 year horizon replacing our existing inefficient stuff is wasteful. But on a 100 year time horizon, population will rise to 10 billion, and we'll turn over almost all of our climate systems. What I would propose is we start now thinking about what sustainable architecture looks like, and start trying to imagine more permanent cultural edifices. I.e. permacu…

I think you and the GP are on the same page, just coming from different angles. You say we need to change communities; how do you do that without first changing the culture? Why do people want to live in suburbs? I don't know how to do it, but if there is enough demand for more efficient lifestyles I believe the market will meet it.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#243

Post by err4nt »

cannonpr wrote: post #107

I hate to say it but AC always felt like thoughtless engineering and consumerism, especially the electric varieties. It's ironic that in a sunny, energy rich environment, you spend extra energy on a heat pump. In a lot of environments some better architecture will take care of the problem via passive methods, additionally evaporative methods work pretty well in dry environments and polute considerably less ? Failing…

In Toronto (Canada! land of snow and the North Pole) we've been having 90% humidity at night. I have AC but it's barely making a difference. Opening a window would be insanity.

I just flew out to Calgary and we have a nice hot day with 40% humidity and it feels great.

If you've only ever lived in dry areas I can understand not being aware, but even with AC, in places with high humidity it's just disgusting in the heat, and chilling to the bone in the cold in a way that dry areas just never get.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#244

Post by wnevets »

jriot wrote: post #82
axelfontaine wrote: post #64

American air conditioners running at full power, chilling the interior and dripping on the sidewalk below on a hot day always deeply trouble me. Maybe it's my european view on things, but for contrast here in Munich we aren't just building out a city-wide heat network, but we also have a cold network! Cold river water flows through the pipe network that traverses the city and large office building can get connected t…

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

>what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything.

Maybe people shouldn't live in a desert if can't handle the heat.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#245

Post by illegalsmile »

losvedir wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

> My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here. You obviously could live there... it would just be unpleasant. I lived a year in Singapore where temperatures were in the 80-90 range. I stayed on-campus at NUS and was lucky to have a room with A/C, but it wasn't common. The majority of students make do with big fans and windows. I remember working…

Turns out that the GP could adapt to sleeping in 90F temperatures as the human body is adaptable. After a few weeks you'd be used to it and it wouldn't matter. The Creek/Seminole did it in the southeast.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#246

Post by lossolo »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

Actually livestock farming produces from 20% to 50% of all man-made greenhouse gas emissions.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#247

Post by crush-n-spread »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

This is complete bogus because it frames 'rampant consumerism' in the frame of '20th century rampant consumerism' without giving thought to consuming sustainable products. It is possible to produce every single product that does not burn hydrocarbons in a completely carbon and waste neutral manner. So why don't we focus on producing enormous quanities of goods in a sustainable way? That's the real task. The way OP thinks is the same way of thinking that leads to 'overpopuplation is a problem' conclusions; We can fit enormous numbers of humans on the planet, we just need to engineer our living environments to be completely neutral to the environment. And that's not impossible. So what is the big idea with trying to get people to stop using products?

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#248

Post by Paul-ish »

DrScump wrote: post #197
clumsysmurf wrote: post #23

Trump's 2018 budget zeroes funding for Energy Star, which among other things, helps consumers pick the most efficient devices, save money in the long run. What other ways can consumers compare the efficiency of A/C units? I would think some standardized testing and labels would be required.

The Energy Star program is riddled with fraud[0]. (Have you ever seen a modern appliance that wasn't "Energy Star Certified"?) [0] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-470 "GAO's investigation shows that Energy Star is for the most part a self-certification program vulnerable to fraud and abuse. GAO obtained Energy Star certifications for 15 bogus products, including a gas-powered alarm clock ."

That document is from 2010. Are there any updates?

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#249

Post by cbau »

sbov wrote: post #221
QuarterReptile wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

The unique problem of desert cities seems to be inappropriate landscaping. Even San Francisco ships its water in from over 100 miles away - not having enough water locally is just a problem of cities in general. The AC story is much worse in a desert city, but the heating story is much worse in cities in cold climates. There's also the benefit that I tend to need my AC when the sun is high in the sky, which aligns pe…

Even Rome built aqueducts.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#250

Post by crush-n-spread »

lossolo wrote: post #246
djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

Actually livestock farming produces from 20% to 50% of all man-made greenhouse gas emissions.

Hi, I was wondering if you have any concrete data for this? I don't think it's true but I'll believe it if I can see some studies or data on it.
Post reply on HN