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Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

nytimes.com

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Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#211

Post by code_duck »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

I feel like the focus on global warming and the fact that it's 'controversial' or there's a 'debate' distracts from concrete, proven issues with fossil fuel consumption: toxic air, water and soil pollution related to both extraction and use.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#212

Post by Domenic_S »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

> When you do need to purchase a replacement, get a used hybrid or electric.

Now all we need is someone to manufacture used cars, since nobody buys new in this utopia.

Edit: to the downvoters: I guess I have to spell it out for you, but my point was that building efficient A/C units makes sense because eventually someone somewhere has to buy new.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#214

Post by TeMPOraL »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

> but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability

They didn't give a damn when those cities were first founded. The issue wasn't probably even on the mind of anyone on the planet. Same is true about cities in seismically-active regions.

It's too late to fix that. You'd have to convince millions to abandon their homes and go... somewhere else.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#215

Post by gorkonsine »

Dangeranger wrote: post #10

Could higher efficiency cooling be done by using more evaporative cooling systems (Swamp Coolers)[0] rather than traditional AC units? There are climates where evaporative cooling is not effective, but perhaps they would be useful in the majority of climate regions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

Swamp coolers only work in dry climates, and only when it's not too hot outside. People stopped using them in Phoenix because they really don't work that well in the middle of the summer now. They can also cause mold problems. Some houses will have "piggyback" systems, with both a swamp cooler and regular A/C, so they can switch to the A/C when it's too hot for the swamp cooler, but modern A/C units are so efficient it's probably not that cost-effective to do that any more.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#216

Post by PretzelPirate »

strommen wrote: post #210
djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

CO2, and its interchangeably-used measure of CO2e (which is a sum of all greenhouse gases weighted based on how much they contribute to global warming) is the only pollutant that matters in this context. Our disposable-good society is a small fraction of our overall impact on the climate. It is 100% possible to power our world with solar, wind, and batteries while keeping the rest of our lives largely unchanged. The…

Air travel? Sure, that ones hard to fix, but we have had a solution for years which would drastically reduce the environmental harm done by cattle farming - eating plant-based foods instead of beef.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#217

Post by lostapathy »

EGreg wrote: post #124
lostapathy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. When we generate electricity via solar or wind, the heat involved has (essentially) been shifted from elsewhere. That energy was going to reach our planet either way. Whether we use a solar panel to shift it somewhere we can use it, or if it just heats the whatever it would have otherwise ran into, we aren't adding energy to the system by shifting it around. The waste heat from solar panels is just the energy…

So then, isn't fossil fuel energy "just" stored sun energy too? If it hadn't wound up underground, our planet would have been slightly hotter already.

Yes, it's just stored energy from the past. But when we release it now, we get heat now. When we leave it in the ground, we avoid that heat.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#218

Post by Girlang »

Here's something that we can do that won't cost any money:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/global-shift-obes...

All we have to do is charge/tax people who overconsume. Since it costs nothing to consume less (and actually saves money), everyone wins.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#219

Post by Consultant32452 »

emodendroket wrote: post #80
thehardsphere wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, the actual spending decisions are made by Congress, so the content of the President's proposed budget doesn't matter.

I think "don't worry; the Republican-controlled Congress will not cut funding on environmental initiatives" sounds like a bit of a pollyannaish proposition.

Can you tell when the US had a Democrat controlled Congress by looking at this global greenhouse gas emissions per year chart? I can't.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...

I'm not saying there's no reason to worry, but there's also no reason to pretend that having the Democrats move pollution overseas solves global problems.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#220

Post by strommen »

rb808 wrote: post #7

Half the article wasn't about a/c efficiency it was that HFC is more of a greenhouse gas than CO2, and was agreed to be phased out. Is there really an HFC replacement - what is it? I wasnt aware.

Can't believe I had to scroll way down to find a comment that actually understood the article!

There are new refrigerants called HFOs that are chemically-similar to HFCs, but do not exhibit the greenhouse effect. Ammonia and propane also work, and are commonly used in commercial refrigeration today.

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