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Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

nytimes.com

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Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#181

Post by robohamburger »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

That may be true but desert cities are still a reality. It might be possible somehow "close" these cities but that seems like something that is not going to happen anytime soon unless they simply become uninhabitable. So given people are going to be living here it makes sense to make things more efficient.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#182

Post by Zhenya »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #151
hughw wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing the number of humans could be one approach. The idea causes rancorous response from religious people who believe God told us to be fruitful and multiply. To reduce births might require coercion, it's true, but it would not require killing people or making them suffer. I don't see how else we can continue to enjoy the benefits and power of technology while keeping the planet habitable and enjoyable.

>To reduce births might require coercion, it's true, but it would not require killing or people or making them suffer. The demographic shift of increasing the number of retirees per healthy adult will definitively cause suffering. There's a reason why Millennials are putting off having children - they can't afford to.

Well, not while buying avocado toast.

/s

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#183

Post by [deleted] »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

[deleted]

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#184

Post by hughw »

julianj wrote: post #179
hughw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy nations already seem to have topped out on population growth, and now grow only through immigration. It could be that when societies reach a certain level of development they naturally produce fewer than two children per family.

As other nations continue to grow and industrialize, the issue then doesn't really go away. It seems that the problem would just move around the globe until we hit critical mass. The only solutions I see to this issue are to be more efficient with the resources we do have and/or move to another planet and start the process over again. Since moving to another planet is not something we will likely be able to do with b…

If it is true that industrialization reduces bithrate below 2 per family, the issue would go away as other nations industrialize. If the whole world industrialized and reduced birthrate below 2, we'd reduce population and hence consumption. I'm not understanding your "critical mass" argument.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#185

Post by Nelson69 »

muninn_ wrote: post #130
rplst8 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having large groups living in mega city heat islands is also an absurd configuration but pretty much the entire world is guilty of that one.

Eh, not really. Cities are better for Co2

Is that established? I believe that there are major giant cities that operate with a lower CO2 footprint than suburban and rural areas might, per capita. But there is the cost of all the CO2 that allowed that urbanization; NYC didn't get the subway without a carbon cost, all that steel in the buildings released a lot of carbon, etc..

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#186

Post by ch4s3 »

Mz wrote: post #156

Passive solar and vernacular architecture makes vastly more sense. I get so tired of these schemes to make our broken lifestyles "more efficient." Just adopt a better method entirely and quit quibbling about tiny efficiency gains.

You're saying that as though passively cooled architecture has no drawbacks in terms of cost, structural integrity, versatility, or suitability for building dense living spaces. I doubt we can develop large cities in the future without a serious focus on improved HVAC. Sure, passive methods, geothermal heating/cooling, etc will have a place, but they certainly aren't the only path forward.

For example, how would you passively control humidity. It's 89F and 55% humidity where I'm sitting right now, outside airflow feels like wet hot death.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#187

Post by oh_sigh »

davidw wrote: post #43

People in the US consume way too much air conditioning. It's pretty common where I work for people to have sweaters to put on inside due to the AC. Outside it's in the 80ies, with something like 10% humidity in the summer - absolutely perfect unless you're doing hard labor in direct sunlight.

Sure, but a lot of places(like the north east) rarely get 10% humidity days.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#188

Post by flippyhead »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

The irony is that consuming less actually leads to increased levels of happiness. If this was more widely appreciated the shift away from consumerism would be easier. I could imagine, for example, some kind of enlightened country/culture that actually intentionally contracts their economy because they've wised up to what really matters.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#189

Post by DrScump »

lfam wrote: post #168
erikpukinskis wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because your house is designed with active cooling as a presumption. If your house was designed to utilize passive cooling effects (thermal mass, green roof, evaporative cooling, overhangs, shades, airflow compression, etc) your bedroom wouldn't get that hot.

Early Florida homes (19th and early 20th century) were built by people who understood passive cooling techniques. But, the invention of AC and the development of super-strong residential building codes in response to destructive hurricanes has steered the last ~70 years of home construction towards sealed concrete boxes with air conditioning infrastructure built in. Many of the classic passive cooling techniques of t…

  the development of super-strong residential building codes in response to destructive hurricanes
plus the fact that all construction is much better insulated than the pre-war installed base.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#190

Post by cjlars »

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

Hans Rosling has a take on this: The Magic Washing Machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZoKfap4g4w&vl=en

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