Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#201

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 10:52 PM UTC

asah wrote: post #48

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really good point. One problem I think though is that not everyone will come out ahead in a single payer system. Our system is explicitly organized around the fact that you must pay for care and we have the best and most expensive care in the world. Our system is setup so that those at the top of the economic ladder can buy a level of care they could not get anywhere else. They will undoubtedly receive wors…

Actually, the 1% would have private healthcare, i.e. pay twice. This is directly analogous to private primary education: the wealthy still pay taxes to fund public schools, while paying addition for private schools as well.

Something else the conservatives want to fix with school vouchers....

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#202

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 10:59 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #163

nolepointer wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or even better, that healthcare costs are low enough that you don't even need insurance See, this is what I don't get. I'm fairly inexperienced with this stuff, but it's starting to become relevant in my life. Despite my new employer offering insurance, I'm staying on my parents' until I'm 26 (this was part of their policy even before Obamacare). However, this is the question I've been asking ... why do I even need…

Part of health insurance is a bit like fire insurance on your house. There is a really small chance that your house will burn down next year (say 1 in 10,000) but if it does you'll lose a ton of money (say $500,000). So you pay $55 to get a year of fire insurance (500,000 / 10,000 = 50 + 5 in profit for the insurance company). This is a great deal for you. $55 is no big deal and now if your house burns down you don't…

Don't forget babies. Child birth is expensive and the reason why young women had to pay more than young men pre-ACA.

Also, skipping your annual health check ups is bad for your insurance company in the long run, so this, at least, they have a huge incentive to make sure you go.

Most people are interested in health care and not health insurance, meaning, we know we are going to use the doctor for something...it isn't a big surprise when your wife gets pregnant (well...I mean...). It isn't a big surprise when you start breaking down toward the end of your life, which is why ~40% of our health care is already socialized via Medicare.

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#203

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

warcher wrote: post #40

ravitation wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a truly free market health care system would be substantially cheaper Why would you imagine that? Regardless... You must also then ask the question, whether a "truly free market health care system" would be ethical.

It's a fun thought experiment, but we'd never do it. A free market would look something like this: 1) everybody buys their own insurance in a genuinely free marketplace (this is ENTIRELY not the case now and would probably require significant gov intervention to defeat cartel-seeking behavior from insurance co's. There are good reasons insurance is so highly regulated, only the first of which is that insurance compan…

Point two is already true in developing countries.

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#204

Post by harryh » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 9:07 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #202

harryh wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of health insurance is a bit like fire insurance on your house. There is a really small chance that your house will burn down next year (say 1 in 10,000) but if it does you'll lose a ton of money (say $500,000). So you pay $55 to get a year of fire insurance (500,000 / 10,000 = 50 + 5 in profit for the insurance company). This is a great deal for you. $55 is no big deal and now if your house burns down you don't…

Don't forget babies. Child birth is expensive and the reason why young women had to pay more than young men pre-ACA. Also, skipping your annual health check ups is bad for your insurance company in the long run, so this, at least, they have a huge incentive to make sure you go. Most people are interested in health care and not health insurance, meaning, we know we are going to use the doctor for something...it isn't…

Ya, babies/pregnancy are (in my mind) a subset of my point #2. For those (and a few other) reasons women tended to pay more for health insurance then men so some people are in favor of a social insurance system to even that out.

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#205

Post by fleitz » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:35 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #14

fleitz wrote: post #6

A big part of this to is drs in places like Canada get training on how to save costs which generally means not providing service. I had to switch to a private system in Canada to get drs who would take a proactive approach.

Oftentimes, not providing any service is better for patient outcomes then providing unnecessary services. Especially if those services are surgeries. [1] [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/18/unnece...

I'm talking about ordering an ultra sound / MRI and running other tests.

I'm talking about sinuses so collapsed they couldn't be scoped so the ENT Dr just assumed they were fine.

Re: Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money

#206

Post by fleitz » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 6:40 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #30

fleitz wrote: post #6

A big part of this to is drs in places like Canada get training on how to save costs which generally means not providing service. I had to switch to a private system in Canada to get drs who would take a proactive approach.

What makes you so sure the 'proactive approach' was actually better for you, health wise?

because they found cancer and removed it, in addition to doing things like ordering tests, like ultrasounds to find out why a shoulder was in pain instead of just dismissing it.

Once my mother in law was given nitro and told to come back in a week, we went to a different hospital later that night after symptoms reappeared and then they did a test and she had open heart surgery that night.