Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps • Hacker News Board

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#131

Post by flubert » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

Scramblejams wrote: post #36

bradlys wrote: post #18

> The Lawrence Berkeley study argues that even a 30 percent improvement in efficiency could avoid the peak load equivalent of about 1,500 power plants by 2030. Okay, but where is this 30% jump in efficiency going to come from? That seems like a pretty big leap!

It's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but if you run your refrigerant loop through the ground instead of cooling it using the hot ambient air, you can absolutely achieve that improvement in efficiency. The concept is described here: https://energy.gov/energysaver/geothermal-heat-pumps The amount of efficiency increase you get depends on the ground temp, which varies by latitude, but I've seen 70% reductions i…

There is also a couple of sections on ground loop heat pumps in the book "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" by David MacKay:

http://www.withouthotair.com/c21/page_152.shtml

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#132

Post by npsimons » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

beambot wrote: post #57

pierrebeaucamp wrote: post #44

I'm pretty disappointed in the numbers they chose for a vegetarian diet. It feels to me as if they actively went ahead and picked to lowest values they could find in their source. (Btw the source itself is a good read imo: http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/plant-rich-diet ) You could argue that people are not willing to go vegetarian or even vegan - but at least level the numbers when comparing it with other sol…

Better, balanced diets also create positive feedback loops in the healthcare equation too -- especially for low income homes. Like many things, it is a human psychology and behavioral challenge...

> Better, balanced diets also create positive feedback loops in the healthcare equation too

You can still eat your way to obesity on a vegan diet - oreos are vegan, after all. Considering that the obesity epidemic is currently the number one driver for health care costs in USA, and it's only expected to get worse (http://dailybruin.com/2011/10/26/obesity_has_become_an_overs...), we could probably vastly reduce costs (and therefore emissions) by just eating a little less, vegan or no.

Edit: why the downvotes?

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#133

Post by philippnagel » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

dmritard96 wrote: post #79

One thing missing from this article is demand response: "It matters, researchers say, because cooling has a direct relationship with the building of coal-fired power plants to meet peak demand. If more air-conditioners are humming in more homes and offices, then more capacity will be required to meet the demand. So 1.6 billion new air-conditioners by 2050 means thousands of new power plants will have to come on line…

tado offers something similar: https://www.tado.com/.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#134

Post by erikpukinskis » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #119

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly. CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive…

I think your thinking is a little short sighted. Yes, on a 20 year horizon replacing our existing inefficient stuff is wasteful. But on a 100 year time horizon, population will rise to 10 billion, and we'll turn over almost all of our climate systems.

What I would propose is we start now thinking about what sustainable architecture looks like, and start trying to imagine more permanent cultural edifices. I.e. permaculture. I don't think we need to worry too much about the ecological cost of replacing our current physical plant with a permaculture one--the ecological costs of transition are dwarfed by the ecological savings we will reap over 100 years.

That said, we should either go big (final stage permaculture) or not try at all. There's no sense in half measures at this point, we either build communities 100x more efficient, or we do as you say: make do with the stuff we have.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#135

Post by kalms » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #71

Just insulate the houses in the US. I am always shocked how badly built US houses that cost 600k are.

+1 to this statement. Just had extra insulation sprayed into the walls of our 1973 house, and replaced the windows with triple layer thermo glass. The difference it made during summer is remarkable, since the added insulation keeps the house from heating up excessively, while retaining heat during nighttime.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#136

Post by lucb1e » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #96

jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

Yeah you could, if you weren't so used to AC. But do you want to live there if you're not used to the heat?

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#137

Post by peterwwillis » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

Dangeranger wrote: post #10

Could higher efficiency cooling be done by using more evaporative cooling systems (Swamp Coolers)[0] rather than traditional AC units? There are climates where evaporative cooling is not effective, but perhaps they would be useful in the majority of climate regions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

As Barack Obama said, "Insulation is Sexy." The less you need air conditioning, the less the particular system matters. For most of the year we shouldn't even need air conditioning, when a building is properly insulated, orientated, and air-circulated.

Not only does insulation have dramatic effects on how temperature is regulated in your building, it only really benefits you when it is installed properly. On top of this, the direction the building faces, placement of windows, proper airflow, and even tile vs carpeted floors all add up to a much more energy efficient home.

How efficient? A building built in Pennsylvania in 1865 can stay cool most of the year (we're talking tops 70F on the bottom floor) by trapping cold air at night and sealing it in during the day. Fans assist air circulation and cooling, and cold air pools in slightly recessed first floor common areas. (It helps to have a stone foundation, too)

Of course you have to mix modern materials and practices with the old-school building constuction to get the most bang for your buck, but it's clear that we do not need to be blasting our A/C half the year. You can also look at models like the Passivhaus[1] for more modern, apartment-oriented designs. (Their underground heat exchanger is another alternative cooling system)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#138

Post by pdelbarba » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

I'm a little confused why solar isn't mentioned. Peak temperature and peak solar flux are highly correlated so this isn't some weird grid storage problem. Tighten standards for new systems and construction to be a little more efficient and let economics go to work.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#139

Post by peterwwillis » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

kchoudhu wrote: post #29

SubiculumCode wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and can even lead to mold

This. American construction is mostly wood frame, making the possibility of mold terrifying for any home owner.

Improper installation of vapor barriers is much more likely to lead to mold. If you don't inspect your contractor's work, expect problems.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#140

Post by davidw » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

tomsthumb wrote: post #110

davidw wrote: post #43

People in the US consume way too much air conditioning. It's pretty common where I work for people to have sweaters to put on inside due to the AC. Outside it's in the 80ies, with something like 10% humidity in the summer - absolutely perfect unless you're doing hard labor in direct sunlight.

While I agree that running the AC to to point of wearing a hoodie is ridiculous, there are some pretty enormous chunks of the US where an 80 degree summer day is relatively chilly, winds coming off of mountains or oceans are basically nonexistent, and the humidity is super high.

Yeah (see my response to the guy from Munich) - but instead of cooling to 60F or whatever, use the AC to dehumidify and cool off to, say, 80 or 78 or something comfortable.