Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody • Hacker News Board

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#11

Post by dbingham » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

blackbagboys wrote: post #9

vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China kills people for speech. The US kills people for being poor and/or black. There's no shortage of cheerleaders for this in either country. I have to note that most people will find it easier to control what they say, than to change their skin colour.

A key difference, of course, being that political resistance to oppression in the U.S. is active, vigorous and protected by law, and does not require a violent, wholesale dismantling of the state apparatus.

But said political resistance has also been largely ineffective for the last 50 to 100 years at addressing the aforementioned problems.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#12

Post by paradite » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

I am sorry but I fail to see how China being influential (which is already true to a large extent) would cause the world to be a worse place than it already is.

You could argue that what's going on in China is bad for Chinese people, but China's influence outside its border is much less significant.

This is going off tangent, but I would just like to point out that until now, China has not been deploying troops around the world and over-throwing foreign governments.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#13

Post by gcb0 » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#14

Post by vkou » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #11

blackbagboys wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key difference, of course, being that political resistance to oppression in the U.S. is active, vigorous and protected by law, and does not require a violent, wholesale dismantling of the state apparatus.

But said political resistance has also been largely ineffective for the last 50 to 100 years at addressing the aforementioned problems.

It has made enormous progress in some areas, but less in others. An African American can now become a lawyer, or a doctor - but they still can't walk, or drive on some streets, or buy a used car without being harassed.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#15

Post by 86go » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

paradite wrote: post #12

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

I am sorry but I fail to see how China being influential (which is already true to a large extent) would cause the world to be a worse place than it already is. You could argue that what's going on in China is bad for Chinese people, but China's influence outside its border is much less significant. This is going off tangent, but I would just like to point out that until now, China has not been deploying troops aroun…

...except threatening Taiwan with war? And ask the people in Tibet and (some) in Hongkong.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#16

Post by gcb0 » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

yingliu4203 wrote: post #4

He is the only noble laureate died in jail after world war II. The one before him was died in a jail of nazi Germany.

sadly, the importance of the title is going downhill. giving one out to an enabler of torture and war was a joke. a very sad and twisted joke.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#17

Post by specializeded » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

paradite wrote: post #12

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

I am sorry but I fail to see how China being influential (which is already true to a large extent) would cause the world to be a worse place than it already is. You could argue that what's going on in China is bad for Chinese people, but China's influence outside its border is much less significant. This is going off tangent, but I would just like to point out that until now, China has not been deploying troops aroun…

That might be because China hasn’t been a superpower for very long, they’ve literally not been able to project that sort of force.

Bit disingenuous to imply that’s solely because of policy, not reality and vice versa.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#18

Post by 323454 » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #6

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

China kills people for speech. The US kills people for being poor and/or black. There's no shortage of cheerleaders for this in either country. I have to note that most people will find it easier to control what they say, than to change their skin colour.

You're being overly selective with the facts. In the US there are problems but there is hope for change through free discourse, independent courts and democratic decision making. In China there are problems but the power to change is invested in officials and bureaucrats with their own interests at heart, and hope for change is hope that such people can be persuaded or bought.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#19

Post by paradite » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

86go wrote: post #15

paradite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but I fail to see how China being influential (which is already true to a large extent) would cause the world to be a worse place than it already is. You could argue that what's going on in China is bad for Chinese people, but China's influence outside its border is much less significant. This is going off tangent, but I would just like to point out that until now, China has not been deploying troops aroun…

...except threatening Taiwan with war? And ask the people in Tibet and (some) in Hongkong.

As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China.

Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#20

Post by paradite » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

specializeded wrote: post #17

paradite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but I fail to see how China being influential (which is already true to a large extent) would cause the world to be a worse place than it already is. You could argue that what's going on in China is bad for Chinese people, but China's influence outside its border is much less significant. This is going off tangent, but I would just like to point out that until now, China has not been deploying troops aroun…

That might be because China hasn’t been a superpower for very long, they’ve literally not been able to project that sort of force. Bit disingenuous to imply that’s solely because of policy, not reality and vice versa.

You make a very good point. I can't really make a judgement now. I am just talking based on my biased experience with the official narratives.

I guess we can only wait and see for ourselves.