Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

facebook.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 306 posts

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#161

Post by drpgq »

learc83 wrote: post #81
wildmusings wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another part of the value of a university is that they factor in SAT scores heavily into admissions. SAT scores correlate strongly with IQ. Hiring based on IQ tests is illegal, but hiring mostly from certain universities is not.

It's not illegal, it's just considered defacto discrimination and you have to prove it's actually beneficial. There's no reason that you couldn't be sued the same way if you're only hiring from a certain university and that leads to excluding people from a protected class.

Interestingly the NFL uses the Wonderlic test.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#162

Post by peruvian »

panorama wrote: post #80

It always frustrates me when commenters are overwhelmingly undereducated about a topic but continue to make broad, sweeping generalizations. There's a ton of negativity, outright assuming, and misinformation being thrown around here. It happens in every bootcamp-related thread (and topics in other subjects of course). No, not every bootcamp was legit. No, making assumptions about all bootcamps based on a handful of b…

> It always frustrates me when commenters are overwhelmingly undereducated about a topic but continue to make broad, sweeping generalizations.

This sentences describes about 80% of the comments in HN. We computer nerds like to think we know about everything.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#163

Post by josephorjoe »

So, three years ago, I was attending DBC and getting my first exposure to web app development. Today, I write code for a living and am enjoying the work I do much more than what I had been doing before.

Did DBC give me an education equivalent to a computer science degree? No.

Did they teach me everything I need to know about data structures and algorithms? No.

Did they help me get my first programming job? Sort of, but not really.

But I did learn an enormous amount of practical knowledge in a very short time (basically: "How to build and deploy a database-backed CRUD app with a reasonable UI while working as part of a small fast paced team" and "How to research stuff you don't know the answer to and figure out how to do it on your own").

They taught me what I needed to know to teach myself the rest of what I needed to know to get where I wanted to be. And for that, it was worth it for me.

But I do have mixed feelings about the bootcamps in general.

They can be really helpful for people in certain circumstances (in my case: career changer who needed to jumpstart the learning process and get some practical guidance), but they sell themselves as something else ("Learn to be a computer programmer in 6 months!").

Sorry to hear they are shutting down. I suppose it was Kaplan's decision and the space has become so crowded that there must be pricing pressure on the programs and a limit to how many graduates the job market can absorb. Will have to go look into this some more and see what I can find out.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#164

Post by twymer »

zebraflask wrote: post #156
jnmandal wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The support/general overhead wasn't cheap either. When I was there we had a free therapist, mandatory morning yoga, teambuiliding exercises, and stuff like weekly free food, etc.

This might have something to do with their financial issues. You obviously don't need these kinds of amenities to learn how to code a SPA. I'd be put off by them and wonder where my money was going and why.

Answering as a current employee. When these were being phased out to start to lower costs students and graduates reacted strongly that they felt they were a large part of our value. Part of what makes us "us". As another commenter in here pointed out: bootcamps aren't for everyone.

We were up front about these things being part of our program because we want to focus on the human aspects of people as much as technical skills. That meant some people were better suited to join other places, but some people came specifically because of this part of it.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#165

Post by e12e »

austenallred wrote: post #51
BreakoutList wrote: post #42

For anyone seeking alternatives, $0 up-front cost software engineering bootcamps that I'm aware of: Learner’s Guild https://www.fastcoexist.com/3068200/when-this-entrepreneurs-... 42 (completely free) https://www.42.us.org/ Holberton School https://www.holbertonschool.com/ Lambda Academy https://lambdaschool.com/computer-science

Hey, I'm the co-founder of Lambda Academy of Computer Science ( https://LambdaSchool.com/computer-science . Also happy to answer any questions. We're not a bootcamp, but we are 100% free until you get a job, and have live instructors from UC Berkeley, NASA, etc. We have a very rigorous curriculum that is closest to an uber-practical CS degree, but there's not really a close proxy to it anywhere. We cover all the CS &…

> We're also online, so you don't have to move anywhere, but we're live and on a strict schedule, so it's not something you can do asynchronously.

Has that been a benefit in terms of graduates getting easier access to remote positions? (The fact that they've demonstrated the ability to work remotely through your course)?

Do you work directly with potential employers, helping students get a foot in the door, or is that up to students themselves? If you do help out, do you "sell" the remote idea?

Finally, are you open to non-US students?

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#166

Post by zbarnes »

I was a graduate of one of the 2015 cohorts. It was a good school that really prepared me for a solid career. However, I remember running the numbers on the camp when I was there and was having trouble coming up with how they could still be profitable given their location, staff, and cohort sizes.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#167

Post by DerfNet »

josephorjoe wrote: post #163

So, three years ago, I was attending DBC and getting my first exposure to web app development. Today, I write code for a living and am enjoying the work I do much more than what I had been doing before. Did DBC give me an education equivalent to a computer science degree? No. Did they teach me everything I need to know about data structures and algorithms? No. Did they help me get my first programming job? Sort of, b…

>Did DBC give me an education equivalent to a computer science degree? No.

>Did they teach me everything I need to know about data structures and algorithms? No.

>Did they help me get my first programming job? Sort of, but not really.

This perfectly describes my experience with LaunchCode in the midwest.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#168

Post by austenallred »

e12e wrote: post #165
austenallred wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I'm the co-founder of Lambda Academy of Computer Science ( https://LambdaSchool.com/computer-science . Also happy to answer any questions. We're not a bootcamp, but we are 100% free until you get a job, and have live instructors from UC Berkeley, NASA, etc. We have a very rigorous curriculum that is closest to an uber-practical CS degree, but there's not really a close proxy to it anywhere. We cover all the CS &…

> We're also online, so you don't have to move anywhere, but we're live and on a strict schedule, so it's not something you can do asynchronously. Has that been a benefit in terms of graduates getting easier access to remote positions? (The fact that they've demonstrated the ability to work remotely through your course)? Do you work directly with potential employers, helping students get a foot in the door, or is tha…

> Has that been a benefit in terms of graduates getting easier access to remote positions?

I don't know that it's really come up much; generally we don't recommend a remote position for your first job, as you'll need a lot of hands-on training. It makes more sense as you become more senior.

> Do you work directly with potential employers, helping students get a foot in the door, or is that up to students themselves? If you do help out, do you "sell" the remote idea?

Yes, we work directly with potential employers, but again "remote" isn't the emphasis.

> Finally, are you open to non-US students?

We are, but unfortunately the "free-up-front" option is only available based on our income share agreement, which is only available to those authorized to work in the US.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#169

Post by austenallred »

phyller wrote: post #122
GauntletWizard wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee, $40k per year? But with huge return on investment in education? Why don't we give people loans, and tie them to their future income? I smell a business opportunity.

That's how App Academy works already. Put a deposit down, go through the program, then pay them a percentage of your first years wages from your new job. I did it, and rich people at the golf club where I worked were telling me it was a bad idea, sounded illegal, etc. In my opinion I got an awesome job in an awesome career for super cheap. I had no money, someone was finally willing to give me a chance based on my ab…

Ya, we're kinda like App Academy except not a bootcamp (a longer, more exhaustive CS program), online (so you don't have to move to San Francisco), and with no down-payment (because most of our students just don't have $4k, even for a down-payment).

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#170

Post by austenallred »

brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #75
busterarm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who can afford to live in San Fran without working for 2 years (9 months)?

And who can afford to have $15,000 taken off the top of their salary between $51,000 and $100,000? I hope this graduate can find remote work and live in a tent in a national park campground nearby a major tech employment city with a killer public transportation system that reaches its public park campgrounds. There are actual bears on Bear Mountain by the way.

How many software engineering jobs in San Francisco pay 50,000?

The $50,000 lower limit is there for people looking for work in more rural communities. For example, yesterday we had a student that was formerly a forklift driver making $10/hr get a job offer in the middle of nowhere for $78k (and that was only two days after graduation). He lives in an area where he pays $500/month for rent.

If he only went from making $10/hr to making $50k, the lifetime economic value is still indisputable - easily over a million dollars during his lifetime. Him paying us back for a couple of years in exchange for making that possible at no money down and shouldering the risk if it didn't work out is a fairly reasonable ask IMO.

Post reply on HN