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Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

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Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#151

Post by JMCQ87 »

xiaoma wrote: post #53
micahlucretius wrote: post #14

Burst of bootcamp bubble? Dev Bootcamp seems to have been the first ever coding bootcamp. Think Hack Reactor (another popular bootcamp) was founded by Dev Bootcamp grads. Or maybe the herd would just distribute to other bootcamps? Even if the failure of Dev Bootcamp doesn't directly hurt the business of other bootcamps, it has a psychological effect on the bootcamp industry: suddenly the bootcamp experience doesn't s…

The bubble is credentialed post-secondary schools and the 1.3 trillion dollar student debt crisis. Just like the credentialed schools, there's a wide variety in quality and outcomes, but I think it's pretty clear they're doing better on ROI (and at least people aren't going into decades of debt for them en masse). > "If the school failed to survive, does it affect the survival of its graduates? Is this going to have…

I would say it's a general education bubble in the US that is still build on the claim that the system can work for everyone - as long as you just try hard enough.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#152

Post by chrshawkes »

factorialboy wrote: post #107

Who needs bootcamps? All you need is a decent machine and an internet connection to learn. That's how we learnt "web" back in the day. Cynical me hopes all commercial (and often spammy) bootcamps and conferences and meetups die a quick death. Also death to the hipster culture in tech. /rant over

The personal computer revolution was started by hipsters.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#153

Post by JMCQ87 »

seaknoll wrote: post #143
jnmandal wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The support/general overhead wasn't cheap either. When I was there we had a free therapist, mandatory morning yoga, teambuiliding exercises, and stuff like weekly free food, etc.

> mandatory morning yoga This would enrage me.

Bootcamps are not for everyone.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#154

Post by chrshawkes »

trevmckendrick wrote: post #27

Hard to compete against things like Lambda Academy where there's no up front cost and you only pay if you get a job: https://lambdaschool.com/computer-science

Lambda does not look like a legit company, there is no terms of service, privacy policy or even a legit contact which is typically required for most reputable businesses. I don't trust them without basic legal information available on their website. For all we know, they are run by the Russian mob.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#155

Post by daliwali »

morgante wrote: post #89
brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, money helps in so many ways. it sure does help you get in. It starts helping you when you are an infant. It helps the whole way. I know this because I worked in the tutoring idustry that helps people get in in exchange for money.

It helps, but it's certainly not the dominant effect. I don't know anyone who went to an elite university without significant baseline intelligence. I've seen so many students who still didn't do that well even after extensive, expensive tutoring. For example, SAT coaching only increases scores by around 50 points. [0] [0] https://www.jefftk.com/p/sat-coaching-what-effect-size

For what it's worth, I boosted my SAT score by 400 points (2100 out of 2400) just by being more aware of the tricks used on those tests. My weakest subject was writing, but not because I am a bad writer, my handwriting is garbage.

It's just like taking IQ tests over again, once you know what to expect, you can game the system a bit by memorizing patterns. Scores on any standardized testing should be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#156

Post by zebraflask »

jnmandal wrote: post #109
foota wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that three thousand was over the last five years. So 6mm. I don't know much about it, but you could eat that up pretty easily it seems. Figure 300 students at a time, ten students an instructor, 100k per instructor, gives 3 million. Then there's rent and support staff.

The support/general overhead wasn't cheap either. When I was there we had a free therapist, mandatory morning yoga, teambuiliding exercises, and stuff like weekly free food, etc.

This might have something to do with their financial issues. You obviously don't need these kinds of amenities to learn how to code a SPA. I'd be put off by them and wonder where my money was going and why.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#157

Post by nobleach »

vosper wrote: post #22
dkarapetyan wrote: post #12

Good. The idea and intention behind bootcamps is a good one but the current implementation is suspiciously like university of phoenix.

I don't know much about University of Phoenix, but I've hired a couple of bootcamp graduates, found through the bootcamp recruiting events. They were both pretty inexperienced, but motivated and smart people. As good as any junior programmers I've hired. In the right circumstances I'd hire them again. It's diamonds-in-the-rough from a recruiting standpoint, but you get to vet a lot of people very quickly (it was exha…

Diamonds in the rough is exactly how I'd describe it. I've sifted through many resumes from DevMountain graduates (and not surprisingly their instructors). What it looked like was one big homogeny of "here's how you create a github account, here's how you commit and push the Angular exercises we've been working on". Almost all were identical resumes. Regardless, the ones that we've hired seemed to do fine.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#159

Post by grandalf »

losvedir wrote: post #144
philipps wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those (like me) who immediately wondered if SATs correlate with socio economic status rather than IQ, this Slate article covers some of the debate about standardized tests and points to meta studies. SATs do track IQ and predict college success, but social emotional skills, grit, and other factors also count. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

That's a very interesting article. One of the points that really stood out to me, despite the present but weak correlation with socioeconomic status, is that it still serves as a very strong springboard for gifted children out of poverty. The article mentions that the SATs can be the bane of upper middle class parents trying to get their children into good schools (test prep works, but only goes so far), while even k…

Exactly. There are many schools (in the east in particular) where privileged children end up who didn't get into the Ivy League, Stanford, U of Chicago or U of Michigan.

The value of the alumni and professional network of these lesser schools, as well as the brand name, is lower than the top tier schools, but the parents often did attend a more elite school, and their network offers inter-generational benefits.

It's interesting that state schools like Michigan accept a large number of less competitive in-state students, thereby providing the sort of springboard you mention, while also attracting a top tier of students that is on par with those attending Ivy League schools.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#160

Post by autokad »

morgante wrote: post #89
brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, money helps in so many ways. it sure does help you get in. It starts helping you when you are an infant. It helps the whole way. I know this because I worked in the tutoring idustry that helps people get in in exchange for money.

It helps, but it's certainly not the dominant effect. I don't know anyone who went to an elite university without significant baseline intelligence. I've seen so many students who still didn't do that well even after extensive, expensive tutoring. For example, SAT coaching only increases scores by around 50 points. [0] [0] https://www.jefftk.com/p/sat-coaching-what-effect-size

I haven't taken the SAT in a long time, but I can speak on the GRE

For the GRE Verbal, you just have to memorize about a thousand words to basically get everything right except for the reading comprehension. that puts someone's score somewhere around ~158/170. I dont think memorizing 1k words is a very hard thing to do, though i am baffled that people dont do it.

For math, a person should memorize special right triangle ratios, prime numbers under 100, and some geometry rules. the rest is just practicing a finite set of question types.

Its all very coach-able

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