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Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

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Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#41

Post by busterarm »

phrowaway21231 wrote: post #34

Shereef Bishay sold out his staff and sold out his mission and he's going to the do the same to his staff at Learner's Guild in Oakland! He sold it off to Kaplan for 80M and his staff (with equity) got nothing!!! I interviewed for a role at Dev bootcamp in 2016 and got an odd feeling from the place and the woman who interviewed me. She took several months to get back to me after I followed up multiple times and wow a…

What do you expect from a bootcamp that's notorious for their "touchy feely wednesdays". They cared more about the mission than the curriculum.

You interviewed with a cult.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#42

Post by BreakoutList »

For anyone seeking alternatives, $0 up-front cost software engineering bootcamps that I'm aware of:

Learner’s Guild https://www.fastcoexist.com/3068200/when-this-entrepreneurs-...

42 (completely free) https://www.42.us.org/

Holberton School https://www.holbertonschool.com/

Lambda Academy https://lambdaschool.com/computer-science

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#43

Post by bovitclan »

austenallred wrote: post #32
skylark wrote: post #21

I find bootcamps to be an interesting industry. The general perception is that they're learning institutions, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, bootcamps are technical recruitment agencies. Companies are realizing that smart, motivated people with no CS degree can still oftentimes excel in the majority of positions (primarily app development.) The problem is finding those people. Bootcamps have…

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times. Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months. So you can m…

> A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country.

The difference between the people who go to Harvard and those that don't has much more to do with money. Hire people with this assumption at your own peril.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#44

Post by GauntletWizard »

austenallred wrote: post #32
skylark wrote: post #21

I find bootcamps to be an interesting industry. The general perception is that they're learning institutions, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, bootcamps are technical recruitment agencies. Companies are realizing that smart, motivated people with no CS degree can still oftentimes excel in the majority of positions (primarily app development.) The problem is finding those people. Bootcamps have…

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times. Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months. So you can m…

Gee, $40k per year? But with huge return on investment in education? Why don't we give people loans, and tie them to their future income?

I smell a business opportunity.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#45

Post by austenallred »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #44
austenallred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times. Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months. So you can m…

Gee, $40k per year? But with huge return on investment in education? Why don't we give people loans, and tie them to their future income? I smell a business opportunity.

Haha. Yeah I'm the founder of https://lambdaschool.com/computer-science - a computer science academy that's free up-front and takes a percentage of salary for two years after you get a job.

The side benefit of this model instead of a loan is that if, by chance, you don't get a job in software engineering, you never pay anything. It shifts the risk from the students to the school, which is IMO how it should be.

Also we're online, so you don't need to move anywhere (but still live instruction and world-class instructors).

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#46

Post by justin »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #30
justin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My youngest brother went through Dev Bootcamp in 2012. He had graduated from a top 30 university but wasn't able to find a great job and had been doing some part time, low skill work. DBC literally changed his life. Post graduation he immediately got a job at a dev shop as a programmer, and now 5 years later is a great developer gainfully employed in Silicon Valley. Not sure why you would shit on the grave of a progr…

Trouble with anecdotes is that it is not data. I'm happy for your brother but that still doesn't change the fact that most bootcamps are overpromising and underdelivering on their promises of gainful employment. It's simply not possible to learn to program in bootcamp time frames. I'm certain if we saw actual numbers it would not be a pretty picture. For the truly motivated it is much better to go to recurse.com or j…

Love your use of speculation to counter my anecdotal data. Incredibly intellectually dishonest.

It is possible to learn enough programming to within 10 weeks to get a job programming. Of course they won't be the best programmers at that point. But I've hired bootcamp grads and have had other friends go through, and they have been positive outcomes. Yes, that is anecdotal data, but it categorically proves false that "it's simply not possible to learn to program in bootcamp time frames."

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#47

Post by ayyjohn »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #12

Good. The idea and intention behind bootcamps is a good one but the current implementation is suspiciously like university of phoenix.

I disagree. I'm a graduate of App Academy and I can't recommend their program highly enough. Ironically, my impression of it has grown since finishing. They asked us to review them right before graduation and I gave them a pretty mediocre review. It wasn't until I entered the job search and realized how well they actually prepared us, and set us on track to succeed and learn that I gained full appreciation for it. You can complain about any number of things, from the teachers all being previous students, to a weird paper thin attempt at an inclusive environment, but I wouldn't call it scammy like University of Phoenix. I don't regret going there for a second. I would say that from a personal level I was challenged more at App Academy than I was in college when I got my degree in Engineering. That could be because I actually enjoyed web dev, but either way, I disagree with that comparison.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#48

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

austenallred wrote: post #32
skylark wrote: post #21

I find bootcamps to be an interesting industry. The general perception is that they're learning institutions, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, bootcamps are technical recruitment agencies. Companies are realizing that smart, motivated people with no CS degree can still oftentimes excel in the majority of positions (primarily app development.) The problem is finding those people. Bootcamps have…

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times. Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months. So you can m…

I don't know if this is accurate, but reading between the tea leaves it seems the commitment to diversity compromised their ability to signal their student quality. Their values are certainly laudable, but perhaps unprofitable. Maybe they would have been better off as a non-profit? It seems like rich and famous people would love to throw money to this initiative as a non-profit.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#49

Post by sylvainkalache »

BreakoutList wrote: post #42

For anyone seeking alternatives, $0 up-front cost software engineering bootcamps that I'm aware of: Learner’s Guild https://www.fastcoexist.com/3068200/when-this-entrepreneurs-... 42 (completely free) https://www.42.us.org/ Holberton School https://www.holbertonschool.com/ Lambda Academy https://lambdaschool.com/computer-science

I am the co-founder of Holberton, happy to answer any question here.

In a nutshell: we are training SWE using a project-based and peer-learning approach. No formal teachers, no lectures, students learn by practicing and collaborating with peers - pretty much like in the workplace.

We haven't graduated any cohort yet (our program is 2 years long, but students can start working after 9 months) but have already students who intern/work at NASA, LinkedIn, Tesla, Apple, Dropbox, Nvidia, Docker, CreditKarma...

Big difference between us and bootcamps: we are covering the fundamentals of CS + we are not focusing on teaching students specific tools but rather developing their critical thinking, problem-solving skills and guiding them on becoming self-learners. All good Software Engineers know that you must constantly learn to stay on top of your game, being about to retrain yourself is the most valuable skill that a professional should have to continue to grow career wise.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#50

Post by austenallred »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #48
austenallred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times. Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months. So you can m…

I don't know if this is accurate, but reading between the tea leaves it seems the commitment to diversity compromised their ability to signal their student quality. Their values are certainly laudable, but perhaps unprofitable. Maybe they would have been better off as a non-profit? It seems like rich and famous people would love to throw money to this initiative as a non-profit.

How diverse was charging $10k/head in New York City in the first place? Are we just talking about racial diversity? Seems like an awfully strange hill to die on.
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