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Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

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Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#271

Post by komali2 »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #246
komali2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk. Why doesn't Twitter flex its muscle and cause a national crisis by tweeting "watch out China, nukes are coming" from Donald Trump's Twitter? That ruins trust in the platform, but what if they just banned the US president's account for TOS or something? Enormous amount of power. What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "Anybody else that wants to…

> I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk "go on..." > What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "oh god... don't stop!" > ... the secret passcode of another person ... brilliant. yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling. and now the gov't is going to find out what happens when those entities start…

>we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling

Holy shit I hadn't even considered this, this is awesome. New story idea.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#272

Post by [deleted] »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #246
komali2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk. Why doesn't Twitter flex its muscle and cause a national crisis by tweeting "watch out China, nukes are coming" from Donald Trump's Twitter? That ruins trust in the platform, but what if they just banned the US president's account for TOS or something? Enormous amount of power. What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "Anybody else that wants to…

> I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk "go on..." > What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "oh god... don't stop!" > ... the secret passcode of another person ... brilliant. yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling. and now the gov't is going to find out what happens when those entities start…

[deleted]

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#273

Post by KGIII »

willstrafach wrote: post #232
briandear wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly true. There is a two man rule to launch. On paper the president has the power, but there are extensive safeguards in place.

They are not allowed to override POTUS.

I also wasn't allowed to smoke pot, while enlisted.

Which is to say, the orders may not be followed by the persons at the switch. I make no claim that they will, or will not, be followed. I merely point out that rules aren't always followed.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#274

Post by komali2 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #223
komali2 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly my point - the US government has the kinds of enforcement power that deals with sending in troops to kick down doors and lock people in steel cages. Google has the kind of power that staves off that from even happening in the first place. The US government isn't a singular entity, it is comprised of several hundred individually powerful people. Three branches, plus several military branches, each w…

I don't think anyone would bother with guns. Order ISPs switch off access to Google's servers and CDNs, order power regulators cut off their power, freeze their bank accounts (as well as those of the executive, employees and vendors) and declare them insurrectionists. If Google truly tried to act with insurrectionist intent, I'd expect (and want) our government to react forcefully.

I'm just playing along with the fiction at this point, so here's my response:

1. Order ISPS to switch off access to Google's servers and CDNs. Most internet traffic stops working as any website using a google CDN breaks, all analytics stops working, internet advertising breaks almost entirely, the internet is suddenly a less profitable and very scary, mostly unusable place. Google releases as its death-throes the fact that the ISPs are entirely to blame for this, gives coordinates of ISP offices and pitchfork emporiums. Customers revolt, UN issues a missive reminding the world that access to the internet is a human right.

2. Order power regulators to cut off their power - Pretty similar to above. Internet stops working very well, except Google continues to work in other countries, and suddenly it doesn't really make sense to do business in the USA. Google employees flee abroad where they can. Opportunistic countries take advantage of this and grant asylum.

3. Freeze their bank accounts - best idea yet, I think, except for I'm not sure how it would be implemented. Government order comes through declaring "Alphabet, Inc" to be entirely comprised of terrorists? Not sure. Either way, Google goes the way of Pablo Escobar and talks directly to bank VPs - "give us some of the money / give us a warning you get a freeze order / whatever, or we tell the world about your midget porn / location of all your private estates / your tax fraud." Alternatively, google uses its near total access to civilian populations to cast the US government as a totalitarian dictatorship issuing a coup against the American people's access to free information and fosters a revolution.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#275

Post by colejohnson66 »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #246
komali2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk. Why doesn't Twitter flex its muscle and cause a national crisis by tweeting "watch out China, nukes are coming" from Donald Trump's Twitter? That ruins trust in the platform, but what if they just banned the US president's account for TOS or something? Enormous amount of power. What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "Anybody else that wants to…

> I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk "go on..." > What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "oh god... don't stop!" > ... the secret passcode of another person ... brilliant. yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling. and now the gov't is going to find out what happens when those entities start…

> yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling.

Except that's not true. Corporations have always had personhood. See 1 U.S.C. §1[0]:

> In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise—

> ...

> the words "person" and "whoever" include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint stock companies, as well as individuals;

Corporations being people is what allows them to own property, use the judicial system (to sue), etc. Basically anything corporations are able to do is because they are people. The speech of a corporation is protected under the First Amendment. Donating your money to a non-profit is a form of speech, no? If I donate $25 to the EFF, I'm agreeing with what the EFF does. That's a form of expression that is protected under the First Amendment. All Citizens United v. FEC did was affirm that money can be a form of speech.

Citizens United didn't establish any president of corporate personhood anymore than Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 US 394 (1886)[1] did back in 1886.

[0]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/1

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern....

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#276

Post by wildmusings »

mabbo wrote: post #19

If Google were actually serious about Net Neutrality, they would use their insane market power to protect it. How? Well, a simple statement saying "any ISP who abuses net neutrality will have their customers cut off from Google products". No Google search, no YouTube, no Gmail. Have those requests instead redirect to a website telling the customer what their ISP is doing, why Google won't work with them, and how to c…

Your key assumption is that Google has all this market power. They don't. The only, and truly ONLY, reason that they're so big and powerful is that everyone automatically goes to google when in need of search. Their business would disappear in a hurry the day that changes.

What's one way that could change? Google stops working for millions of people, so they start using another product.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#277

Post by jameslk »

mouldysammich wrote: post #268
jameslk wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't this basically be a form of economic tort? If so, I doubt Google would want to be on the receiving end of the legal consequences.

If net neutrality was gutted, wouldnt they be allowed to do that? Is that not the same thing that the ISP is doing?

In the case of tortious interference, Google would be selectively attempting to interfere with the existing business relationship between the ISP and its customers by targeting specific ISPs it deems as violating what it considers as net neutrality.

Where as an ISP is unaware of any specific relationship and therefore isn't attempting to interfere.

IANAL but that's my interpretation of this specific tort law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference#Elements

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#278

Post by JustSomeNobody »

lerpa wrote: post #155
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't the spirit of the Internet always been about a neutral Internet? That spirit was being threatened and so regulations were put in place to keep it neutral.

If there are bad players, why instead don't you get rid of the legislation that gives them monopolies, so other people can offer better services? Instead you're just giving the bad apples your money. Oh how awful for them... and they will put data caps and raise prices, because as long as the laws gives them monopolies you can't do nothing about it.

I would love to get rid of the legislation that promotes monopolies among the ISPs. Please do tell me how? Seems every politician these days doesn't hold my same opinions.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#279

Post by mr_spothawk »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #275
mr_spothawk wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk "go on..." > What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "oh god... don't stop!" > ... the secret passcode of another person ... brilliant. yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling. and now the gov't is going to find out what happens when those entities start…

> yeah... we (in the US) gave AI/meta-cognative-entities/"corporations" a type of inalienable right with the Citizens United ruling. Except that's not true. Corporations have always had personhood. See 1 U.S.C. §1 [0]: > In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise— > ... > the words "person" and "whoever" include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships,…

> Except that's not true.

You're right.

And now there's precedent.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#280

Post by ygaf »

cwkoss wrote: post #192
acomjean wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it. If you've ever experienced the not too occasional fighting between cable companies and some of the networks they carry, it can get ugly. With both sides claiming they're in the right. Sometimes the channels even go off the air because the cable company won't pay what the networks want. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_dispute The only problem is if say google pulls YouTube from comcast, its not like…

Would be better to not block, but show a 30 second video explaining why comcast sucks before each video. If you're blocked, you'll only see the message once. If you have to watch a video before instead, you'll get angrier and angrier each time.

Don't preach to users that $ISP is bad, just tie the inconvenience in to lack of net neutrality.
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