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The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

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Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#171

Post by kromem »

Facebook also has a serious problem in that its news feed is a content recommendation engine with only positive reinforcement but no negative reinforcement. So you end up with a ton of false positives even when actively interacting with the content, and their system doesn't even know how wrong it is.

And should you really not like some content, the solution is unfriending the poster, rather than simply matching against that type of content (political, religious, etc).

The fact there isn't a private dislike button (that no one sees you clicked other than Facebook), is remarkable at this point. It's either woefully obtuse, or intentional so that a feed of false positives better hides moderately targeted ads.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#173

Post by dkarl »

swenn wrote: post #148
crowbahr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix, I think, has killed their own recommendation algorithm when they removed stars and made it boolean. I don't know if those buttons even do anything anymore because I think they're just matching based off demographic and who they're trying to market to now. It's recommending shows that I never would watch in a million years and giving them high matches despite me disliking most similar shows just because I'm a…

Interesting experience, I recently read an article that gave me the impression that they rather improved the system. Excerpt from https://www.appcues.com/blog/rating-system-ux-star-thumbs/ "In addition to the new rating system, Netflix has new match percentages (up to 100%) to more accurately predict how much users will like something. ... The new rating system received 200% more ratings in A/B tests, according to Ne…

If Netflix was trying to ensure that what I was mostly likely to watch next had the highest star rating, no wonder they gave up on it. Our opinion of the quality of something is not a good predictor of our likelihood of watching it.

Their users are surely not confused about that. So why does Netflix want to present a prediction as a rating? Is it to flatter their users by telling them that the thing that feels instantly gratifying right now is actually an amazing movie? "Hey, great choice. Billy Madison is a five-star movie. What? Why would you feel bad about not watching Raging Bull instead? It's a two-and-a-half star movie at best."

In other words, Netflix, like Facebook, like Doritos, is engineering itself for maximum addictiveness without regard for honesty. It will shelter you from even what you know and reassure you that whatever triggers a pleasure response in your brain is the best. Relax and enjoy it.

The truth is that we consume easy things a lot more often than we challenging things. It would be exhausting otherwise. But the best things are often the most challenging. We know that, we know that easy movies are just a way to kill time, but Netflix wants to do us the service of helping us forget it, because then we might be 1% more at ease when we watch Netflix and 1% less likely to switch to another service.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#174

Post by pmlnr »

rickpmg wrote: post #94

>.. shame on Facebook for torturing them for the exposure when I was originally targeting maybe 10 other colleagues to begin with. Seems like the facebook algorithm is actually working for the users by in effect blocking insipid idiots from posting their crap trying to game the system. You don't 'target' colleagues.. colleagues are people you work with and respect.. not try to spam.

Geez.

Target in this case: stuff that will most probably interest that specific group of people.

How about reading the authors' publications before making assumptions next time?

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#175

Post by fritzw »

crowbahr wrote: post #128
Semaphor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it is because of weird tastes or something else. But for sites like Steam, YT, Netflix I always wish for more tuning parameters because their recommendations are all horrible. On Netflix, for example, I get recommended stuff that's similar to other things I didn't like. Amazon is often the best of them for books because their engine seems to only really value the last few things I looked at / bought a…

Netflix, I think, has killed their own recommendation algorithm when they removed stars and made it boolean. I don't know if those buttons even do anything anymore because I think they're just matching based off demographic and who they're trying to market to now. It's recommending shows that I never would watch in a million years and giving them high matches despite me disliking most similar shows just because I'm a…

I think Netflix probably did it because people are inherently bad at being objective. For the average person, 2 stars for a movie and 4 for another isn't based on anything measurable, even they couldn't explain. I'm shocked at some of the amazon product reviews, most of which are 5 star reviews even if the product is absolutely terrible. Movies are different than products, but it's the same people doing the reviewing. Remember, the average user is not a thinking analytical HN user. Average people are much better at bool choices.

Whether the buttons do anything, I have no idea

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#176

Post by pjc50 »

specialist wrote: post #72
ProblemFactory wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a page, Facebook wants to milk you, so they've got this weird algorithm that pushes your posts to only a small fraction of the page's followers, expecting you to start "promoting" them. While this does enable Facebook to force brands to buy advertising, it is also an user-friendly change. Nobody who I have spoken to about this thinks that "like/follow" = "I want to see everything they post" on Facebook.…

I wasn't aware that facebook does partial publishing/pushing from Pages. I'm co-admin for an org's official Page (and Group). Our bylaws require advance announcement of various things, like meetings and resolutions. We've been using our official Page just like our mail listserv, assuming all our subscribers are getting all of our announcements. Frankly, this sucks. Minimally, it violates the UX design principle of le…

I'm afraid you need to use email for that, unless people have starred your page they will not be getting all your announcements.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#177

Post by maxxxxx »

kerbalspacepro wrote: post #138
Semaphor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it is because of weird tastes or something else. But for sites like Steam, YT, Netflix I always wish for more tuning parameters because their recommendations are all horrible. On Netflix, for example, I get recommended stuff that's similar to other things I didn't like. Amazon is often the best of them for books because their engine seems to only really value the last few things I looked at / bought a…

Regarding Amazon: "Oh, you bought a wallet? Here are twenty wallets of the exact same type but with slightly different colors that you might want to buy, too"

Funny story:

A while ago I took an Ayurveda class (Indian medicine) and part of it was doing an oil enema. There are devices for this that are also used by a certain population for sexual pleasures. Bought one on Amazon and for months I couldn't show my Amazon page to other people because it was filled with sex toys....

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#178

Post by alttab »

kromem wrote: post #171

Facebook also has a serious problem in that its news feed is a content recommendation engine with only positive reinforcement but no negative reinforcement. So you end up with a ton of false positives even when actively interacting with the content, and their system doesn't even know how wrong it is. And should you really not like some content, the solution is unfriending the poster, rather than simply matching again…

You can hide individual posts, posts similar to it, and posts from individual groups or people.

That solution doesn't require defriending or unliking a page. Facebook uses this feedback when recommending content

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#179

Post by wutbrodo »

andreasgonewild wrote: post #60
wutbrodo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been proven over and over again that consuming crap like this makes everyone feel bad and hate each other. Consuming posts about theoretical math? Because that's them only content that the article talks about. I'd love to see the research that claims this.

I was rather thinking about consuming bullshit lies about other peoples fabulous lives, algorithmically arranged for maximum impact. But yes, bragging about the size of your intellect falls in the same basket. Google it if you desperately need authority to back up common sense. Most of the stuff people post on Facebook just wouldn't be posted in a less twisted medium, and we would all be better off. I know I'm growin…

If you think that posting things that interest you is bragging about your intellect, I think that says a lot more about deep-seated problems you may have than it does about Facebook.

The thing is, I agree with you that many people's Facebook usage probably isn't particularly good for their psyche, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to use it healthily (at its core, it's just a communications medium) and the assumption that articles about theoretical math is "bragging about the size of your intellect" is honestly just pathetic.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#180

Post by sogen »

CodeCube wrote: post #167
jon_richards wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the argument that this prevents buyer's remorse. Not sure if it has any merit.

wait, wouldn't this cause buyer's remorse? like, if I just finally decided to buy some product ... being bombarded with all the other options suddenly makes me rethink my purchase decision, "oh but what if this other one is more gooder!?!?!"

Exactly my thoughts, you might see there something with better/more reviews.
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