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Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

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Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#131

Post by lucideer »

gcp wrote: post #85
ssivark wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand @tofumatt's desire to restrict that Github thread to the specific problem and its fix. However, given Mozilla's recent advertizing attempts slinging mud at Google/Chrome, it seems like they're asking for their credibility to be shredded publicly, in the media. This is an important enough matter that it deserves immediate escalation, to get a clear and coherent response at the organizational level tha…

All the features and technical improvements they might hope to ship in the next several months are irrelevant compared to this single issue. Which "single issue" is that then? That AMO is using GA (and has been for years)? Or that TP doesn't work correctly for the in-browser UI? I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

The 2nd issue is huge, as are the 3rd and 4th issues:

3. that a part of the browser chrome (which is technically iframing a website, but should still meet user expectation of being a part of the browser) is tracking users who have explicitly opted out of browser telemetry.

4. that in-browser telemetry includes sending user data to 3rd-parties without that being explicitly consented to.

Tbh, AMO using GA is something I don't really find acceptable, and would much rather was phased out, but having been aware of it for so long, it'll hardly drive me away. Most importantly, I can block it with an addon (unlike this issue).

Really though, the crux of the issue here from a PR perspective is not any individual technical failing, but the really disappointingly dismissive attitude of the Mozilla devs replying to comments on Github and here. If an employee of Mozilla can't see the significance of this, I worry about Mozilla's adherence to it's own stated mission.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#132

Post by eridius »

kuschku wrote: post #56
gcp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue the root cause is more that Mozilla is willing to trade away privacy for developer convenience. Oh, not arguing that. Even with Google out of the picture entirely, Telemetry is a nice example. But I'd argue it is needed to stay relevant as a browser. So it's not a good counterargument to Mozilla's decision here. You can see from the relevant bugs that GA vs Piwik and such were certainly considered, so peopl…

> For --some people-- all firefox users that won't be enough. The only reason people use Firefox nowadays is because they don’t trust Google. The intersection between "Trusts Google not to abuse data they get access to" and "uses Firefox" is the empty set.

Speak for yourself.

I fully expect Google to abuse any data they think they can get away with. But I also expect Google Legal to make sure that Google adheres to the contracts they sign, and in this case they have a contract with Mozilla that requires the GA data to be silo'd. While I'd feel better if Mozilla didn't use GA at all, I also understand why they do use it, and I'm not going to pillory them over it.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#133

Post by [deleted] »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #102
pavement wrote: post #45

As I mentioned in #1107: we will not be removing analytics support entirely. It is extremely useful to us and we have already weighed the cost/benefit of using tracking. https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/1107 Ew. Firefox, I am ashamed to know you.

That bugged me a lot too. The weight of the cost of user privacy should be infinite so, unless they found an infinite benefit, the choice should have been clear.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#134

Post by [deleted] »

jdenning wrote: post #99

The main reason I use and recommend Firefox is that I don't trust Google to respect user privacy. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Mozilla has violated user trust here, and the responses to the bug report are very disappointing. Any other recommendations for privacy-respecting, open source browsers? This seems like a good time for a competitor to earn some market-share.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#135

Post by amichal »

gcp wrote: post #108
eli wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "obvious" that it violates either of those. The general consensus is that normal GA tracking alone does not meet the standards to trigger either the EU or the stricter Dutch cookie notification requirements since they are using first-party cookies not tied to PII and don't follow you across sites. And that's assuming a standard GA snippet, not the smaller subset of data Mozilla is collecting here. And the GA…

The general consensus is that normal GA tracking alone does not meet the standards to trigger either the EU or the stricter Dutch cookie notification requirements since they are using first-party cookies not tied to PII and don't follow you across sites Do you have a good reference for this? Especially the "don't follow you across sites" seems weird as Google will end up collecting hits from the same IP/browser/etc c…

Found a source for this opinion. Here [1] are instructions from the Dutch Government's "Personal Data Authority" on setting up GA in compliance with their laws in a way that does (did?) not require an explicit notice. See [2] for an explanation in english

[1] https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/at... [2] https://www.iabeurope.eu/eucookielaws/nl/

TLDR: If you use the following code. You are fine to use GA without a notice under Dutch law.

ga('set', 'forceSSL', true); ga('set', 'anonymizeIp', true);

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#136

Post by Aaronn »

hartator wrote: post #129

> Legacy uBlock Origin can block the network request to GA. /gorhill uBlock Origin is no legacy, but probably one of the best options. Glad to see so much contempt from Moz leadership.

Legacy in this case is just referring to the API that was used to build the add-on. Also I assume you realize gorhill (who posted this sentence) is the person who created uBlock Origin, he is not a Mozilla employee.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#137

Post by gcp »

amichal wrote: post #135
gcp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general consensus is that normal GA tracking alone does not meet the standards to trigger either the EU or the stricter Dutch cookie notification requirements since they are using first-party cookies not tied to PII and don't follow you across sites Do you have a good reference for this? Especially the "don't follow you across sites" seems weird as Google will end up collecting hits from the same IP/browser/etc c…

Found a source for this opinion. Here [1] are instructions from the Dutch Government's "Personal Data Authority" on setting up GA in compliance with their laws in a way that does (did?) not require an explicit notice. See [2] for an explanation in english [1] https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/at... [2] https://www.iabeurope.eu/eucookielaws/nl/ TLDR: If you use the following code. You are fine…

Thank you! This is really useful.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#138

Post by Charismatic »

Without elaborating on opt-in or opt-out, there is one clear fact: A user that has telemetry disabled has clearly stated that he does NOT want to "Share performance, usage, hardware and accusation data about your browser with Mozilla". https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/share-telemetry-data-mo...

If you do this add-on tracking despite this option is turned off, this is a clear breach of trust. If I have this option off, then I expect that exactly such a tracking of usage and customization like described above is NOT happening.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#139

Post by kuschku »

gcp wrote: post #137
amichal wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found a source for this opinion. Here [1] are instructions from the Dutch Government's "Personal Data Authority" on setting up GA in compliance with their laws in a way that does (did?) not require an explicit notice. See [2] for an explanation in english [1] https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/at... [2] https://www.iabeurope.eu/eucookielaws/nl/ TLDR: If you use the following code. You are fine…

Thank you! This is really useful.

Be aware, this changes in 316 days, when the EU GDPR comes into force, and makes even for those cases opt-in required.
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