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Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

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Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#91

Post by ssivark »

gcp wrote: post #85
ssivark wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand @tofumatt's desire to restrict that Github thread to the specific problem and its fix. However, given Mozilla's recent advertizing attempts slinging mud at Google/Chrome, it seems like they're asking for their credibility to be shredded publicly, in the media. This is an important enough matter that it deserves immediate escalation, to get a clear and coherent response at the organizational level tha…

All the features and technical improvements they might hope to ship in the next several months are irrelevant compared to this single issue. Which "single issue" is that then? That AMO is using GA (and has been for years)? Or that TP doesn't work correctly for the in-browser UI? I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

They are both issues. My principal point is that they're all part of the same problem in the bigger picture, which is: Mozilla is breaking its privacy promises to its users.

1. Mozilla casts aspersions on Google/Chrome for not respecting users' privacy. (eg: recent billboard advertizements)

2. Mozilla doesn't respect users privacy because it uses tracking, that too third-party, that too from Google.

Pot -> kettle -> etc...

Mozilla risks losing credibility. What fundamental principles do they claim to stand for, if they're willing to compromise those for convenience?

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#92

Post by lucideer »

gcp wrote: post #82
lucideer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I opt(ed) in to Firefox Telemetry for this reason (and will in future if this bug is satisfactorily fixed). I did not expect that would mean sending my data to 3rd parties I don't trust. Your comparison is a false equivalence, because it's not about telemetry vs privacy, it's about consent. If Mozilla devs adhered to the ethos of the company they took a job at they simply would not have implemented this feature.

It's only a false equivalence because you just moved your goalposts from "no tracking/analytics" in the original post to consent. If Mozilla devs adhered to the ethos of the company they took a job at they simply would not have implemented this feature. It looks as when the problem was reported, this was in fact the reaction: make it respect DNT. Using GA by itself rose no red flags because Mozilla has a privacy-enfo…

I'm not sure what you mean by moving goalposts? I was mainly just discussing my own expectations, but also, it looks like the above comment from davb that you replied to did discuss consent.

> Using GA by itself rose no red flags because Mozilla has a privacy-enforcing deal with Google about it.

I saw that, and I guess that legal contract may appease some people. Personally, I would rather not have to trust a company with a well-earned reputation for breaking the law when it comes to respecting users' privacy. I would rather they spent the time they invested into negotiating that contract on self-hosting instead.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#93

Post by coldpie »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #88
coldpie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt, you're not going to find one. Developing a modern browser is extremely difficult, on the order of developing an entire operating system. Mozilla does respect privacy rights, and it is clearly treating this as a bug to be fixed. You're going to have to cut them some slack for not being 100% perfect always.

The fact they thought this was a good idea to begin with speaks volumes about their actual position.

I disagree. I think people who believe in protecting their privacy can also be OK with Google Analytics processing, anonymizing, and aggregating the data. I also understand why someone would not feel that way. I think it's something about which reasonable people can disagree. This is why Mozilla provides the option[1].

[1] Which is, incorrectly, not being respected. This is a bug which they will fix.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#94

Post by akerro »

jshelly wrote: post #75
pavement wrote: post #45

As I mentioned in #1107: we will not be removing analytics support entirely. It is extremely useful to us and we have already weighed the cost/benefit of using tracking. https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/1107 Ew. Firefox, I am ashamed to know you.

Deleted based on similar response below. "Which browser should I use"

https://www.brave.com

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#96

Post by Silhouette »

anonymousab wrote: post #68
snakeanus wrote: post #59

I find it quite amusing how the new web extensions are unable to block this in comparison to the "legacy" ones. https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785#issue... I am really wondering why they want to replace xul addons with the web extension ones when they are so weak compared to the xul ones?

>when they are so weak compared to the xul ones To many, I suspect that is the prime intent.

So far, the only difference I have noticed is that some useful add-ons that made Firefox significantly more attractive than some other browsers no longer work.

The single biggest loss for me personally has been the ones that would save unsubmitted form content in case of crashes, accidental window/tab closure, etc. When I checked recently, there no longer appeared to be any add-on available that provided this valuable functionality.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#97

Post by shostack »

AmVess wrote: post #66

Tofumatt wrote "we will not be removing analytics support entirely. It is extremely useful to us and we have already weighed the cost/benefit of using tracking." Which reads a lot like "they are giving us a pile of money to breach your privacy, so to hell with you."

More like "it is really critical that we understand how users engage with our product and we need a solid way of tracking that. GA is practically an industry standard."

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#98

Post by eli »

dpcx wrote: post #73
tombrossman wrote: post #39

Google Analytics T&Cs[0] make it explicitly clear that users must disclose to visitors that they use it. "You must post a Privacy Policy and that Privacy Policy must provide notice of Your use of cookies that are used to collect data. You must disclose the use of Google Analytics, and how it collects and processes data." I know many people ignore it just like with all the other "I agree" check-boxes that pollute webs…

To be fair, there's a link to the Mozilla Privacy Policy at the bottom of every add-on page, that explicitly states that they may use analytics (and even names Google Analytics).

You agree to that same Mozilla Privacy Policy when you install the browser. It's linked from the browser's About screen. There's no requirement it be on every page.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#99

Post by jdenning »

The main reason I use and recommend Firefox is that I don't trust Google to respect user privacy. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Mozilla has violated user trust here, and the responses to the bug report are very disappointing.

Any other recommendations for privacy-respecting, open source browsers? This seems like a good time for a competitor to earn some market-share.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#100

Post by microwavecamera »

gcp wrote: post #54
lucideer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that approach is that, many technically literate Firefox users will deliberately opt-in to Telemetry as a component of their support for a pro-privacy product. Telemetry actively benefits development of Firefox, and a pro-privacy user will want to strategically share their data with entities they trust in order to row back against the tide of entities that they do not trust. Frankly, Mozilla are shoo…

The problem here is that GA is quite frankly Telemetry For Websites. Frankly, Mozilla are shooting themselves in the foot by sending any data from any of their products or web properties to their primary competitor. This ship sailed a long time ago. Mozilla negotiated stricter privacy in their contracts with Google, and Mozilla Legal clearly believes Google will uphold those agreements despite it being a competitor.

But it begs the obvious question, why use Google Analytics at all? If it's just about gathering statistics there's several non-invasive ways to acquire that data.
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