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China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

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Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strange thing to downvote, considering that the UK government has basically promised exactly this sort of measure.

Yep. Banning the use of strong encryption (introducing penalties for it,) is the logical conclusion of what Theresa May has said she wants to do.

Yes, it absolutely is. Outlawing private communications between citizens (or subjects, in the UK's case) is not the first step down this particular slippery slope, it's well past the halfway point.

I recommend watching a movie called The Lives of Others, to those who don't understand or agree. It should be available on either Netflix or Amazon, or if all else fails, the Pirate Bay.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#132
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a lot of work just to be petty in > the case someone online disagrees with you. I am really okay if someone disagrees with me and downvotes me...After all, I do not make a living based on the HN karma points in my account... But for the reason that I stated in my previous two posts, I feel I have some reason to doubt this could be an act of information manipulation from personnel funded by the Chinese govern…

> and if there were indeed government resources behind this, multiple accounts that each has 500 karma points are nothing... And if that was indeed the case you would also expect other replies critical of China and the Chinese government to be downvoted to a similar degree, and yet that has not happened in this thread. Why single you out in particular?

My posts, among all the posts sharing some similar views on this topic -- not just in this thread but in many other threads on this topic as well -- are not the only ones that have been downvoted multiple times -- from a purely statistical estimation, this should not be the case...And if you have done some search within the domain of news.ycombinator.com, you could easily find other downvoted instances that have been posted by other commenters, which apparently shows that it is not the case that mine have been "singled out" in that aspect...

I was trying to state my observation on a downvoting pattern and some of my past readings...I am not asserting that the information manipulation here is a sure fact -- to prove that would require some analysis on a global set of data...

But if you only look at one instance, with a small set of data, and make a statement such as "why single you out in particular?", then perhaps you could ask similar questions for any jailed politic dissident in that country, like, "Xiaobo is a criminal; and why single him out in particular?"

I just don't think there is enough evidence here to reasonably kill the doubt that there could be a possibility that certain information has been manipulated for certain government's political ends...

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First thing first, I didn't downvote you or anyone else - because > I simply don't have enough karma to downvote anyone. > Please check my public profile before pointing fingers, that > would be a much more civilised move. I apologize if my words made you think that I was saying that you double downvoted me...I was just trying to put my observation in its context...but I did not mean you. > The problem is you seem…

> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian" Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#134

From my experience in China, it seems that the vast majority of Chinese citizens have no idea what a VPN is and or why they would use it. Friends of mine that are Chinese citizens that study abroad in the US make extensive use of VPNs to circumvent the GFW. Every technology company that I've come across in China has invested a great deal of effort into establishing stable VPN connections. I have seen several "VPN mic…

Luxury hotels in China have transparent VPN for their entire networks. I was quite impressed staying at a brand new St Regis in a 3rd tier city recently and discovering that I had full access to anything when connected to their WiFi network.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First thing first, I didn't downvote you or anyone else - because > I simply don't have enough karma to downvote anyone. > Please check my public profile before pointing fingers, that > would be a much more civilised move. I apologize if my words made you think that I was saying that you double downvoted me...I was just trying to put my observation in its context...but I did not mean you. > The problem is you seem…

> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian" Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First thing first, I didn't downvote you or anyone else - because > I simply don't have enough karma to downvote anyone. > Please check my public profile before pointing fingers, that > would be a much more civilised move. I apologize if my words made you think that I was saying that you double downvoted me...I was just trying to put my observation in its context...but I did not mean you. > The problem is you seem…

> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian" Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First thing first, I didn't downvote you or anyone else - because > I simply don't have enough karma to downvote anyone. > Please check my public profile before pointing fingers, that > would be a much more civilised move. I apologize if my words made you think that I was saying that you double downvoted me...I was just trying to put my observation in its context...but I did not mean you. > The problem is you seem…

> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian" Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First thing first, I didn't downvote you or anyone else - because > I simply don't have enough karma to downvote anyone. > Please check my public profile before pointing fingers, that > would be a much more civilised move. I apologize if my words made you think that I was saying that you double downvoted me...I was just trying to put my observation in its context...but I did not mean you. > The problem is you seem…

> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian" Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is…

  > You do realize that the recent administrations are the exact victims of those failed 
  > polices back in the 50s/60s? You do realize that the current Chinese President 
  > had his father put into jail because of those policies? Do you even know that the 
  > Chinese President himself was sent to the most rural area to work as a 
  > farmer/labour for 7 years because of those policies? 
  > Suddenly, the victims need to be responsible for the horrible past.
I used that example only as a counter example to the statement made in your previous post, that "Chinese living in China" can "figure out what is truth and what is propaganda, and "Chinese as a population of 1.4B" cannot "be easily manipulated."

Not to divert too far, I am just saying that, the propaganda and the censorship in the country made it is almost impossible to find out the truth, in many cases such as those ones that I listed in my previous posts.

There is a saying that "in today's China, the history is unknown but the future is always sure..."

Back to your question in your current post: yes, I know that Xi Jinping was persecuted during the Cultural Revolution...So was Bo Xilai, but that doesn't change Bo's apparent fondness about the Cultural Revolution style...

And, please don't mix up the Great Famine with the Cultural Revolution -- they were almost 8 or 9 years apart...and neither Xi Jinping nor Bo Xilai was much affected during the Great Famine...

  > This is as silly as arguing that thousands of people 
  > got killed by flying Boeing-747 and thus it was a bad 
  > idea to develop 747.
Sometimes inappropriate analogies could misguide people's reasoning...to justify your analogy, you need to also do a cost/benefit comparison and see if the two cases are at a similar ratio or scale...

And just try to live next to one of those factories in some seriously polluted areas in China for several weeks , perhaps you could have some empathy for the local people who have been living there for their entire life...

And how much compensation will they ever get?

Well, again, my original point of using this example was only to address your statement that people in China know the truth well...If that is the case, I don't think people these days, including you and me, would have too much contention about what the truth really was...

In the future, let us try not to divert from topic to topic -- then this discussion would become arguing for the purpose of arguing, instead of for the purpose of getting closer to the truth...

  > so just follow your system because it works so well in
  > Arab Spring countries lately? What a joke.
If you look at a broader historical picture, then do you happen to know that there was a Spring of Nations around 1848 in Europe? Just look that up...A little more knowledge about the truth won't do you harm -- and, the Spring of Nations is not a joke, it is a historic fact...

==============================

If you have more counter-arguments, please list them below...I will try to come back to address them later when I find some more time...thanks...

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#139

So what we need is a VPN that looks like https traffic or is https forbidden in China too? Is anyone working on this? After a quick read it's apparent that even the most sophisticated defences are going to be open to the one endpoint having loads of data against it. It would need lots of different "real" IP connections and my guess peer to peer would be difficult too. Statistics and machine learning will always be go…

Life finds a way? I could encode 0 to "duck" and 1 to "cat" and I can tell you "duck duck cat duck, cat duck duck cat" and that's 0010 1001, i.e. the letter I. Obviously it need to be more sophisticated than this. Then, you can use the channels that no one's looking at, but I guess China is looking everywhere.

That's fine but still most of your traffic will go to a single endpoint. It'd be easy to analyse patterns in most surfing protection solutions...

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#140
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and if there were indeed government resources behind this, multiple accounts that each has 500 karma points are nothing... And if that was indeed the case you would also expect other replies critical of China and the Chinese government to be downvoted to a similar degree, and yet that has not happened in this thread. Why single you out in particular?

My posts, among all the posts sharing some similar views on this topic -- not just in this thread but in many other threads on this topic as well -- are not the only ones that have been downvoted multiple times -- from a purely statistical estimation, this should not be the case...And if you have done some search within the domain of news.ycombinator.com, you could easily find other downvoted instances that have been…

Here are two posts more threatening to the current Chinese government and their way of thinking than your post:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14743104 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14741623

And yet they don't appear to have been downvoted.

It just seems like you are creating a rather complex theory to explain the reason for your downvotes, rather than accept the more likely reason that you just made a low quality post.

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