Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 59 posts

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#41

Post by ericfranklin »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #21
ghostly_s wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general opinion is this is a synthetic diamond laundering operation. Synthetic diamonds are of course chemically identical to natural, but natural diamonds still fetch a higher price.

Do you have a source for that statement? If I'm not mistaken synthetic diamonds are almost always detectable by experienced gemologists (like the ones working at Debeers, presumably), and the timeline of synthetic diamond technology wouldn't line up either.

Major gemological labs can certainly identify a diamond's origin (mined or grown). There are many characteristics that can identify origin, and color or clarity is rarely used as the conclusive indicator. Here is a semi-recent study of synthetic diamonds from my company: https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/spring-2014-ulrika-hpht-sy...

You are right though, gem-quality synthetic diamond technology didn't come around for several decades after this mine started producing.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#42

Post by ericfranklin »

willvarfar wrote: post #14
gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought there were ways to tell synthetic from natural? Surely DeBeers were particularly interested in discrediting Soviet diamonds and if they could find proof that those were indeed synthetic, they would have used it?

I recall watching a documentary where the reporters got diamond merchants to test some diamonds. Many of the synthetics were easily spotted but one - from a new technique or something - was only spotted because it was "too pure".

The testers a typical jeweler or diamond merchant might use only identify between diamond, cubic zirconia or moissanite. They do not identify origin of a diamond.

The testers that can identify a diamond's origin are quite expensive and usually only found at major gemological labs.

All synthetic white diamonds are "Type IIa" (no or trace amounts of nitrogen) while only 1-2% of mined diamonds are IIa. 97% of mined diamonds are "Type Ia" (clusters of nitrogen). It is possible that is what they were referring to about purity, but the amount of nitrogen is not a definitive indicator of origin.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#43

Post by flukus »

benchaney wrote: post #35
quakeguy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One comment from that link made me curious. "They should install wind turbines around the perimeter of the hole and take advantage of it! New form of renewable energy – hole in the ground energy!" Clearly a form of joke, but im intrigued to know why this won't work. (Or why it could work)

If you are digging really big holes, there are presumably more efficient geothermal schemes.

These typically require large investments to build and suffer from other problems like salt corrosion, whereas putting wind turbines in seems like a very quick win.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#44

Post by mobilefriendly »

mohaine wrote: post #27
mustacheemperor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that statement? If I'm not mistaken synthetic diamonds are almost always detectable by experienced gemologists (like the ones working at Debeers, presumably), and the timeline of synthetic diamond technology wouldn't line up either.

Last I heard for the grown diamonds it was only because the grown ones have perfect clarity and color which is never the case for natural ones. So the price goes up for clarity and color until it hits perfect then it falls back to synthetic diamond prices. If a synthetic version is better then the natural version can you still call it synthetic?

No you call it curated.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#45

Post by gozur88 »

Alupis wrote: post #20
willvarfar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall watching a documentary where the reporters got diamond merchants to test some diamonds. Many of the synthetics were easily spotted but one - from a new technique or something - was only spotted because it was "too pure".

That's how all synthetics are identified... natural diamonds all contain impurities from the material they were formed near/in. It's sort of funny in a way... impure diamonds are worth more than pure diamonds... but then again, none of them would be worth much at all if DeBeers didn't control the release into the market (diamonds are not rare at all, and therefore only valuable due to artificial scarcity).

Seems like you ought to be able to create a process that adds impurities that mimic natural diamonds.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#46

Post by traek »

anigbrowl wrote: post #36
ortusdux wrote: post #19

This mine is the first thing I zoom in on when checking out a new procedurally generated 3d world map service. It is easy to spot because of the nearby Vilyuy Reservoir built to power the mine. Everyone's algorithm can handle mountians, but I've yet to see one that correctly renders this crater. Even google earth shows the mine as flat.

a new procedurally generated 3d world map service Don't tempt us with interesting details like that and then leave out the name :)

S/he gave an example already--Google Earth. Apple Maps also has generated 3D maps.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#48

Post by milcron »

ericfranklin wrote: post #39
milcron wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds as though they were creating gem-quality synthetic diamonds but kept it on the down-low, and used their Siberian mines as cover.

Even today there are only a couple places in the former Soviet Union that can grow gem-quality synthetic white diamonds. Their production numbers are far less than the output of a single mine, and the results are still rather random. Prior to 2004 or so, the only synthetic diamonds that could be produced commercially were colored and primarily industrial-grade.

Well, I say "gem-quality" because the article did, but it also points out that the diamonds were a greenish color, and incredibly consistent in size and quality.

When DeBeers finally got a 20-minute tour of the Siberian mine, far less earth had been excavated than they expected for the number of diamonds that the USSR sold.

There are many additional circumstantial details in the article.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#49

Post by jordanb »

dankohn1 wrote: post #28
willvarfar wrote: post #6

> These diamonds were all of a uniform size and shape and were dubbed 'Silver Bears'. While DeBeers could not understand how the Soviets were producing such a large quantity of gem diamonds of such uniform size, and supposedly from one mine that by DeBeers surveys should not be capable of such diamond production, they were, nevertheless, pressured to purchase them all lest the Soviets simply dump the diamonds on the…

I remember hearing a story about diamond polishing methods in use right after the collapse of the Soviet Union where the resulting diamonds had a lower value than their inputs. I've used the metaphor in programming and management of dealing with value-subtracting workers.

This was a criticism of the late-stage soviet economy: Taking perfectly good trees and turning them into useless plywood. Perfectly good wool gets turned into sweaters so awful even Soviet citizens won't wear them, etc.

Francis Spufford's Red Plenty gets into that, and on the rapidly diminishing returns on capital investment in general in the soviet economy in the 1970s-80s.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#50

Post by BoiledCabbage »

ericfranklin wrote: post #40
cr0sh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general opinion is this is a synthetic diamond laundering operation. If this is true, then the Soviet Union must have come up with an alternate method to produce "tons" of these high quality, large diamonds long before anyone else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond The two methods then known to make synthetic diamonds, were only useful for industrial diamond purposes, if I'm reading that correctly…

Correct. The Soviet technology for growing diamonds is HPHT (high pressure high temperature). There are a handful of known producers and research facilities in the former Soviet Union that can grow diamonds, but all using HPHT. These were all industrial grade until the late 90s-early 00s, and colorless diamonds did not consistently grow with this technology for several more years. The other technology you mention is…

> These were all industrial grade until the late 90s-early 00s

I believe the point being made is that the only ones publically admitted to being lab made were the industrial grade. The lab made gem grade were made to look like mined stones. The belief is the Soviets kept this a closely guarded secret because it was very profitable for them.

Post reply on HN