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A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

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Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#21

Post by mustacheemperor »

ghostly_s wrote: post #8
willvarfar wrote: post #6

> These diamonds were all of a uniform size and shape and were dubbed 'Silver Bears'. While DeBeers could not understand how the Soviets were producing such a large quantity of gem diamonds of such uniform size, and supposedly from one mine that by DeBeers surveys should not be capable of such diamond production, they were, nevertheless, pressured to purchase them all lest the Soviets simply dump the diamonds on the…

The general opinion is this is a synthetic diamond laundering operation. Synthetic diamonds are of course chemically identical to natural, but natural diamonds still fetch a higher price.

Do you have a source for that statement? If I'm not mistaken synthetic diamonds are almost always detectable by experienced gemologists (like the ones working at Debeers, presumably), and the timeline of synthetic diamond technology wouldn't line up either.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#22

Post by asveikau »

thriftwy wrote: post #3
thriftwy wrote: post #2

In 1955 Soviet Union was already built. The peak of Soviet period is 1965, which is pretty close.

Then there's this consideration: In Europe, most of towns are historic, they're in good places and can take any place in economic system. In America, there are towns dedicated to mining or specialized farming (rubber?), but they quickly get abandoned when mine is exhausted or the output is no longer needed. Soviet Union built quite a few towns in remote northern locations, they were way bigger than feasible for minin…

If you get away from coastal cities you see similar phenomena in the US. I have family that grew up in a coal town in Pennsylvania where coal is long gone. The big employers are mostly fulfilment centers and the primary claim to fame is now its descendants of 19th and 20th century European immigrants enacting discriminatory housing policy towards the new wave of Latino immigrants.

A lot has been made about how these people feeling left behind relative to prosperous coastal cities enabled a Trump victory. The trends are of course much older than that.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#23

Post by davidwihl »

georgecmu wrote: post #5
supahfly_remix wrote: post #4

Helicopters can't fly over it—the downward force of the air would pull them in. Can someone explain the physics of this? The air above the hold is at the same pressure as that beside the hole, otherwise there would be a constant wind. Also, above a certain altitude helicopters don't rely on ground effects.

If a hole is deep enough — and a half-kilometer deep hole qualifies — the earth will warm the air inside it. The deeper the hole, the warmer the air. Warm air rises, and cool air sinks, so with a big temperature difference between in-hole air and aboveground air, you get quite a bit of air movement. Thus, two things are happening. First, the warm air rising from the hole is less dense and gives less lift to helicopte…

Given the odd local microclimate, I would not want to be on a low and slow approach to runway 6 at the nearby Mirny airport, especially in a slow-to-spool turbojet. I bet the Soviets never published accurate accident data.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#24

Post by mirimir »

willvarfar wrote: post #6

> These diamonds were all of a uniform size and shape and were dubbed 'Silver Bears'. While DeBeers could not understand how the Soviets were producing such a large quantity of gem diamonds of such uniform size, and supposedly from one mine that by DeBeers surveys should not be capable of such diamond production, they were, nevertheless, pressured to purchase them all lest the Soviets simply dump the diamonds on the…

Maybe the Soviets stockpiled these diamonds for some years, before developing a relationship with DeBeers.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#25

Post by jghn »

willvarfar wrote: post #14
gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought there were ways to tell synthetic from natural? Surely DeBeers were particularly interested in discrediting Soviet diamonds and if they could find proof that those were indeed synthetic, they would have used it?

I recall watching a documentary where the reporters got diamond merchants to test some diamonds. Many of the synthetics were easily spotted but one - from a new technique or something - was only spotted because it was "too pure".

Perhaps the same documentary, but a while back I saw something where the latest techniques were easy to spot for being too good. But then they showed a new technique being developed that was able to inject natural seeming imperfections. The show claimed that this was the impetus for DeBeers laser etching their mark on diamonds as they had no other way of detecting the difference.

This was a while ago though so I'd imagine the cat & mouse game has evolved for both sides.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#26

Post by nonbel »

georgecmu wrote: post #5
supahfly_remix wrote: post #4

Helicopters can't fly over it—the downward force of the air would pull them in. Can someone explain the physics of this? The air above the hold is at the same pressure as that beside the hole, otherwise there would be a constant wind. Also, above a certain altitude helicopters don't rely on ground effects.

If a hole is deep enough — and a half-kilometer deep hole qualifies — the earth will warm the air inside it. The deeper the hole, the warmer the air. Warm air rises, and cool air sinks, so with a big temperature difference between in-hole air and aboveground air, you get quite a bit of air movement. Thus, two things are happening. First, the warm air rising from the hole is less dense and gives less lift to helicopte…

Are they sure it is the earth warming it and not just the continuation of the lapse rate[1]? How much warmer is it at the bottom? If it is 5-10 C warmer that could just be the atmosphere getting thicker.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapse_rate

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#27

Post by mohaine »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #21
ghostly_s wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general opinion is this is a synthetic diamond laundering operation. Synthetic diamonds are of course chemically identical to natural, but natural diamonds still fetch a higher price.

Do you have a source for that statement? If I'm not mistaken synthetic diamonds are almost always detectable by experienced gemologists (like the ones working at Debeers, presumably), and the timeline of synthetic diamond technology wouldn't line up either.

Last I heard for the grown diamonds it was only because the grown ones have perfect clarity and color which is never the case for natural ones. So the price goes up for clarity and color until it hits perfect then it falls back to synthetic diamond prices.

If a synthetic version is better then the natural version can you still call it synthetic?

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#28

Post by dankohn1 »

willvarfar wrote: post #6

> These diamonds were all of a uniform size and shape and were dubbed 'Silver Bears'. While DeBeers could not understand how the Soviets were producing such a large quantity of gem diamonds of such uniform size, and supposedly from one mine that by DeBeers surveys should not be capable of such diamond production, they were, nevertheless, pressured to purchase them all lest the Soviets simply dump the diamonds on the…

I remember hearing a story about diamond polishing methods in use right after the collapse of the Soviet Union where the resulting diamonds had a lower value than their inputs. I've used the metaphor in programming and management of dealing with value-subtracting workers.

Re: A Huge Diamond Mine That Helped Build The Soviet Union (2014)

#29

Post by thriftwy »

dimitar wrote: post #16
thriftwy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then there's this consideration: In Europe, most of towns are historic, they're in good places and can take any place in economic system. In America, there are towns dedicated to mining or specialized farming (rubber?), but they quickly get abandoned when mine is exhausted or the output is no longer needed. Soviet Union built quite a few towns in remote northern locations, they were way bigger than feasible for minin…

It is a major cause of potential social instability. The conflict in Donbass also has a similar interpretation: coal production there peaked in the late 70 and by the 90 it was an endlessly subsidized rust belt, with a significant minority of the population being born outside Ukraine. It is a backwater hopelessly reliant on outside help, with widespread violent crime, alcoholism, drug use and corruption. It is these…

> it was an endlessly subsidized rust belt

BTW, Russia reformed their coal production by closing unprofitable mines and selling the rest. Now producing more coal for less money without subsidies. Ukraine did not and largely kept Soviet mine system intact.

> backwater hopelessly reliant on outside help, with widespread violent crime, alcoholism, drug use and corruption

You have combined "basket of deplorables" reasoning with divisive Ukrainian nationalism to achieve a new low.

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