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Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

bloomberg.com

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Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#21

Post by hellbanner »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #2

As always, any implication that all closed-source software, regardless of company, suffers from similar issues, is conveniently absent. Just as it was during the VW emissions scandal - it's the cheating that was problematic, not that consumers are effectively in the dark about how most of their products operate, and deliberately prevented (successfully or not) from finding out (personally, or done on their behalf by…

Do you think because the implications of open-source software would threaten the economic model & world that the writer lives in?

Or that it's just an oversight and they just want to earn clicks? I think it's the latter, even if it's in effect the former (unintentioally).

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#22

Post by kurthr »

pjc50 wrote: post #15
marcusjt wrote: post #4

Whatever next? Have American AV companies been "Working with American Intelligence"? That would be just as shocking... ;)

Thanks to the wonders of the free market, you can choose which global intelligence service you want your software to be compromised to! (I'm not even sure if this is a joke)

What's (also not?) shocking is that huge swath of America and the rest of the world doesn't know this and just thinks... those nice people at XXX installed that wonderful virus checker for free on my new PC.

Remember the crap you remove from your uncle's computer over Christmas... and that he's was a full bird colonel with links to all of his old buddies on FB who think spear fishing involves flippers.

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#24

Post by mwfunk »

ProAm wrote: post #20
muninn_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would anybody be surprised by this knowing full well that American companies do the same?

Because the Russians are the bad guys. /s

I didn't believe this as a child in the '80s, but in the last 10 years at least, Putin's Russia has been freaking horrifying to me. So yeah, they aren't the world's only bad guys, and they're probably not the worst, but it's not for lack of trying. Putin's vision of Russia doesn't even try to avoid looking comically sinister. I honestly don't see how anyone who isn't wrapped up in self-interested religious or ethnic nationalism could see it any other way.

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#25

Post by linkregister »

mwfunk wrote: post #24
ProAm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Russians are the bad guys. /s

I didn't believe this as a child in the '80s, but in the last 10 years at least, Putin's Russia has been freaking horrifying to me. So yeah, they aren't the world's only bad guys, and they're probably not the worst, but it's not for lack of trying. Putin's vision of Russia doesn't even try to avoid looking comically sinister. I honestly don't see how anyone who isn't wrapped up in self-interested religious or ethnic…

The problem with that viewpoint is to treat Russia as a monolithic entity. Despite military aggression and political and speech repression by the ruling junta, there is still a vibrant and mostly functional economy.

Kaspersky providing services to the FSB (which is kind of like NIST, FTC, FCC, FBI, and DHS all in one) is little different to Cisco or IBM providing consulting services for the respective U.S. agencies.

Political conflict has always been this way, it's just more apparent now that trade information is widely accessible.

To compare, Japanese companies traded with the U.S. up until the 1941 invasion, despite significant political conflict between the two countries over Manchuria and the colonies in Southeast Asia.

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#26

Post by ajarmst »

It's hardly odd for a computer security company to seek government contracts. The released emails don't seem point to anything nefarious (unless merely working with the FSB is considered nefarious). The remainder is a lot of "could" and "would be possible" speculation. Conspiracy mongering clickbait. Moving on.

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#28

Post by neuronexmachina »

gtirloni wrote: post #3

The article seems a bit hyperbolic to me. Expecting a major Russian cybersecurity company not to have any business with its own government is a bit naive. Not all government business is spying and unlawful activities. From what Bloomberg is sharing with us (I couldn't find those emails), Kaspersky is developing a software solution with defensive and offensive capabilities as well as providing consultancy services to…

Here's the actual quote from Kaspersky's email about his firm's projects with the FSB:

> The project includes both technology to protect against attacks (filters) as well as interaction with the hosters (‘spreading’ of sacrifice) and active countermeasures (about which, we keep quiet) and so on

Does anybody know what "interaction with the hosters" means?

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#29

Post by thephyber »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #2

As always, any implication that all closed-source software, regardless of company, suffers from similar issues, is conveniently absent. Just as it was during the VW emissions scandal - it's the cheating that was problematic, not that consumers are effectively in the dark about how most of their products operate, and deliberately prevented (successfully or not) from finding out (personally, or done on their behalf by…

I think the Bloomberg reporting goes beyond that. They claim lots of networking hardware comes pre-installed with Kaspersky software that the end-user may not even be aware of.

I can't find specific products so I don't know whether this is just Dell-preinstalled crapware that can be wiped with an OS reinstall or some sort of embedded device where the end user has no interface to disable/uninstall it.

Re: Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working with Russian Intelligence

#30

Post by freehunter »

linkregister wrote: post #25
mwfunk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't believe this as a child in the '80s, but in the last 10 years at least, Putin's Russia has been freaking horrifying to me. So yeah, they aren't the world's only bad guys, and they're probably not the worst, but it's not for lack of trying. Putin's vision of Russia doesn't even try to avoid looking comically sinister. I honestly don't see how anyone who isn't wrapped up in self-interested religious or ethnic…

The problem with that viewpoint is to treat Russia as a monolithic entity. Despite military aggression and political and speech repression by the ruling junta , there is still a vibrant and mostly functional economy. Kaspersky providing services to the FSB (which is kind of like NIST, FTC, FCC, FBI, and DHS all in one) is little different to Cisco or IBM providing consulting services for the respective U.S. agencies.…

I don't think it's entirely unfair. We know that the Russian government sponsors cyber attacks. They're not the only ones, we know the USA and China and North Korea and Israel and probably every other country does too. It all has to be taken into account.

If I buy Cisco gear, what's the likelihood that it has an NSA tap in it? [1] If I buy Check Point gear, what's the likelihood that it has a Mossad tap in it? [2] If I buy Kaspersky software, what's the likelihood that it has an FSB tap in it? Who would I rather be spied on by?

Does it change the risk rating if we know we're under active attack by a particular country? As someone who works for a major tech company, I can tell you Snowden's information about the NSA cut deeply into the trust we had built up with our foreign customers.

It is entirely fair to judge a Russian security company based on the actions of their government related to cyber attacks. Especially considering the not-entirely-democratic government of Russia does not allow private sector companies to be entirely private sector.

[1] https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/21/nsa-technique-for-cisco-...

[2] http://greatcircle.com/firewalls/mhonarc/firewalls.199707/ms...

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