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Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#41

Post by Bartweiss »

djrogers wrote: post #37
abtinf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an incorrect analogy, because that claim would be about enhancing performance for peak performers. This study shows that there is no basis for the claim that you can enhance performance of normal/healthy performers. The researchers state the have insufficient evidence to determine the effect on low/unhealthy performers.

It’s actually not a bad analogy - healthy young adults tend to be at their mental peak, certainly compared to when they are another 40-50 years down the road...

It is a bad analogy, because the problem with studying marathon runners is that they've already used the fitness technique you want to study. They're runners because they walk and run a a lot. (And not necessarily because they're young! People run marathons in their 80s.)

This study is about people who've never used Luminosity's techniques, but are in unrelated good (brain) health. There are a lot of known ways to mitigate or undo damage to the brain. Luminosity made a much bolder claim, that they could raise IQ in healthy, high-functioning adult brains. That's the Holy Grail of intelligence research, because no one has ever found a way to do it.

It's like claiming a two mile walk each day will make literally anyone a much better runner. If you claim that, it's relevant that your offering is no good to marathoners.

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#42

Post by Bartweiss »

SilasX wrote: post #24
kranner wrote: post #20

Title should include "for healthy young adults" as in the study: "The researchers note limitations in the study, most importantly that they only looked at young, healthy people. Brain-training games may still prove useful for aging adults or people suffering from addiction or unhealthy behaviors, the researchers caution."

So, kinda like: "Adding a two mile walk every morning was found to have no health benefits[1] [1] we only studied marathon runners"

Except - Luminosity has consistently implied and claimed they can boost performance in young, healthy people.

That study of two mile walks for marathoners would suddenly be worthwhile if a popular, well-funded program claimed they could improve your marathon time with a two mile walk.

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#43

Post by Bartweiss »

b6 wrote: post #8

I have no idea what I'm talking about in this area, but the only brain games I've run into that I think might actually be helpful are the ones that are somewhat painful, e.g., BrainHQ. Definitely not fun. I start to sweat just thinking about some of the tasks in there.

Probably, no brain games at all boost IQ in healthy people. But some of them definitely help with memory, focus, etc, and I agree that those seem to be the hard ones.

Dual n-back, the general benchmark for these things, is hard. It's exhausting like intricate coding or a tough math proof is exhausting. Certainly I'd be suspicious of anything claiming to do better than that with less mental effort.

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#44

Post by closed »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #40
closed wrote: post #23

Slightly off-topic, but the pushback against brain training owes a huge debt of thanks to Randy Engle (and others), for loudly questioning the methods and rational of the early "become smarter by the magic of dual n-back" research. Here's an article where he compares it to cold fusion: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/can-you-make-your...

Was the claim not "doing n-back helps working memory"? Hardly "become smarter". Whether or not it works is worthy of discussion, but straw-man-ing a hyperbolic claim that wasn't made doesn't add to the discussion.

That was half the claim. The full claim was that it improves fluid intelligence by improving working memory. The title of Jaeggi 2008 is "Improving fluid intelligence with training on working memory".

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/19/6829.abstract

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#45

Post by Bartweiss »

notheguyouthink wrote: post #3
moron4hire wrote: post #2

I'm in the middle of planning a startup with a doctor who does research on therapy methods for traumatic brain injury. She frequently goes on rants about how much bullshit Lumosity is. So literal appeal to authority, but this particular authority was doing research at NIH for 17 years. I think she knows what she's doing.

Are there any that aren't bullshit? I'm debating just setting up a spaced repetition app with my own custom knowledge base. At least that way I may not be getting higher brain function, but higher retention on memory items I care about.

...basically no.

Dual n-back was thought to be the only thing that worked, but even that now looks non-transferrable. (Gwern is great on this topic.) For young, healthy adults, I do not know of any brain exercise capable of directly raising IQ or its analogues.

You might, maybe, be able to boost neurogenesis. Exercise is a decent candidate for that, and I don't know the situation with drugs there. But I don't know of games that do it.

Realistically, you've got a few options. Your idea, spaced repetition of useful stuff, is great. Practicing memory tricks like mind palaces can improve your long-term memory on arbitrary facts. Picking up new topics dissimilar to the ones you know probably helps synthesis. Lots of things can maybe delay dementia. Meditation can improve focus and alertness.

All of those are worthwhile. The top-line, raise basic IQ stuff? To my knowledge doesn't exist.

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#46

Post by wccrawford »

DiffEq wrote: post #11
notheguyouthink wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any that aren't bullshit? I'm debating just setting up a spaced repetition app with my own custom knowledge base. At least that way I may not be getting higher brain function, but higher retention on memory items I care about.

Or...one, or all of these: 1.Learn a Second Language 2. https://projecteuler.net/archives 3. http://rosalind.info/problems/list-view/ If you are going to exercise your brain, you might as well get smarter and learn useful skills in the process.

>If you are going to exercise your brain, you might as well get smarter and learn useful skills in the process.

One might argue that that's the only way to actually exercise your brain.

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#47

Post by wccrawford »

gargarplex wrote: post #16
notheguyouthink wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any that aren't bullshit? I'm debating just setting up a spaced repetition app with my own custom knowledge base. At least that way I may not be getting higher brain function, but higher retention on memory items I care about.

I'm conversational in Swedish. Started with duolingo.

Congrats!

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#48

Post by closed »

jmcgough wrote: post #33

I spent three years of undergrad working on neurogenesis research - was actually able to show that voluntary exercise could help ameliorate memory deficits caused by a model of a neurodegenerative disease we'd induced in rats. A Luminosity recruiter contacted me after I left, and I asked for evidence that their research is actually helpful. They were very kind and passed along a number of studies that they'd done. I…

Interestingly, one of my old colleagues has research that examines exercise / sport practice in humans as an alternative to the WM training approach. (You two might get along :).

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=_0GhDagAAAAJ

Re: Study finds Lumosity users show no improvements in cognitive performance

#50

Post by eagsalazar2 »

It seems surprising to me that people agree you can increase focus and memory through exercise but not IQ. I would think that by increasing focus and memory your comprehension scores, for example, would increase dramatically. I know if I'm distracted my comprehension is way lower. Is that now how IQ tests work?
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