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Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

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Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#71

Post by quicknir »

yoran wrote: post #59
Twisell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that during crisis Gold is guarantee to fall back at worst to it's "practical" value as a metal being used for jewelry. Even tulips bulbs have a practical value as every gardener could tell you. However the practical value of a crypto currency is zero. And no technical small talk was able to contest this truth so far. EDIT: Downvote what you can't contest, how mature!

* I can buy a new Dell laptop with Bitcoin ( https://blog.dell.com/en-us/we-re-now-accepting-bitcoin-on-d... ). * For that laptop I can buy Windows with Bitcoin ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13942/microsoft-acc... ). * I can book my holiday with Bitcoin ( https://www.cheapair.com/help/payment-and-billing/what-is-bi... ). * I can donate to Wikimedia with Bitcoin ( https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways…

Buying something with something else is not a "practical use". Practical use means that you can actually build or make something of value with the product in question.

The prices for all of these things are almost certainly based on the conversion rate between Bitcoin and the US dollar (or other major currencies). If Bitcoin massively deflates you may be able to still do those things, but it will cost many more Bitcoin: that's the whole point of this discussion.

Yes, a $100 has no practical value either. But it's the official tender of the US government, which means that the US government does all of its spending in US dollars. Contracts, paying its employees, etc. The US government (federal, state, and local) spends a significant chunk of US GDP, i.e. a significant chunk of the world's largest economy.

A country's currency is understood to be tied to that country's economy and monetary policy. As the economy is larger and the policy decisions are protected from craziness by checks and balance, currencies tend to be volatile only to a certain point in practice.

This is even more true when you live in said country: if you live in the US, even if the US dollar is inflating considerably as measured against foreign currencies, the inflation of the dollar on the local economy is generally less. US annual consumer price index inflation has only cracked 10% for the year a handful of times in the last century.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#72

Post by dragonwriter »

resf wrote: post #68
rtpg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know what is an even better store of value? Just buying across the S&P 500. Treasury bonds also work. I can understand going for Gold or BTC if you do not have reliable access to US financial markets, but if you do have this, there's no reasonable financial argument for using BTC as your store of value. If the dollar falls apart, you won't be able to use BTC.

There is no "better" or "worse". The S&P500 is less volatile than Bitcoin, the flip side of that is that historically Bitcoin has appreciated relative to the S&P 500. Bitcoins are far more practical than an S&P500 ETF. For instance, I can carry bitcoins across a border, whereas if you want to move shares across a border it will involve a lot of paperwork -- if you are a US citizen it may be impossible due to FATCA.

> Bitcoins are far more practical than an S&P500 ETF. For instance, I can carry bitcoins across a border, whereas if you want to move shares across a border it will involve a lot of paperwork -- if you are a US citizen it may be impossible due to FATCA.

You seem to be comparing like what is physically possible with one with what is legally allowed with another; it's physically possible, and you'll probably usually get away with it, to carry stock certificates across most borders. Conversely, I haven't seen ant set of customs allowances which permit travellers to legally carry bitcoins across the border (and those rules tend to be “everything not specifically permitted is prohibited”.)

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#73

Post by uncletammy »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #65
arisAlexis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you hate it cause you missed the train? not late still

I didn't read that comment as hate. The rise of Bit Coin is absolutely fueled by criminal activity. Bitcoins utility in facilitating illegal drug purchases is possibly its greatest asset. As long as people want to buy drugs on the internet and use Bitcoin to do it, the BC value will rise. Can you imagine if Bit Coin becomes the most popular way for people to buy prescription medications from other countries? It would…

The rise of bitcoin is fueled by investment speculation. There are other coins much better suited for buying drugs online.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#74

Post by arcaster »

Interesting to see the paradigm of "bitcoin is doing well, everything else must be less useful" is making a comeback? I the reason progressively larger corrections have been happening is due to more people who know nothing about crypto entering the space, therefore introducing more volatility and reflexive baseless reasoning.

If you question this, join one of the "crpyto currency" groups on FaceBook and read through a majority of the posts... I've come across people who've taken out loans to purchase crypto and people who installed wallets locally and wondered why the crypto they bought on CoinBase didn't magically appear. The most disconcerting posts are those who constantly ask "why did the price go up or down" or blindly post their chart predictions as to why the currency will keep going up in value.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#75

Post by Raphael »

yoran wrote: post #59
Twisell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that during crisis Gold is guarantee to fall back at worst to it's "practical" value as a metal being used for jewelry. Even tulips bulbs have a practical value as every gardener could tell you. However the practical value of a crypto currency is zero. And no technical small talk was able to contest this truth so far. EDIT: Downvote what you can't contest, how mature!

* I can buy a new Dell laptop with Bitcoin ( https://blog.dell.com/en-us/we-re-now-accepting-bitcoin-on-d... ). * For that laptop I can buy Windows with Bitcoin ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13942/microsoft-acc... ). * I can book my holiday with Bitcoin ( https://www.cheapair.com/help/payment-and-billing/what-is-bi... ). * I can donate to Wikimedia with Bitcoin ( https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways…

You are required to pay taxes in your state's currency. You can't really buy much with Bitcoin when it tanks, because all of those stores are just using the current exchange rate with state currency.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#76

Post by yoran »

klochner wrote: post #67
yoran wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* I can buy a new Dell laptop with Bitcoin ( https://blog.dell.com/en-us/we-re-now-accepting-bitcoin-on-d... ). * For that laptop I can buy Windows with Bitcoin ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13942/microsoft-acc... ). * I can book my holiday with Bitcoin ( https://www.cheapair.com/help/payment-and-billing/what-is-bi... ). * I can donate to Wikimedia with Bitcoin ( https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways…

You're agreeing with him. Gold and tulips are commodity currencies, they have value outside of their uses as a currency. The dollar and bitcoin are not commodity currencies, i.e., they have no value or use outside of their use as currencies. Whether bitcoin can be called a 'fiat' currency is debatable because it's not a currency "by fiat", though "fiat" currency has come to mean a non-commodity currency.

I see now that I misunderstood his point.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#77

Post by yoran »

quicknir wrote: post #71
yoran wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* I can buy a new Dell laptop with Bitcoin ( https://blog.dell.com/en-us/we-re-now-accepting-bitcoin-on-d... ). * For that laptop I can buy Windows with Bitcoin ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13942/microsoft-acc... ). * I can book my holiday with Bitcoin ( https://www.cheapair.com/help/payment-and-billing/what-is-bi... ). * I can donate to Wikimedia with Bitcoin ( https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways…

Buying something with something else is not a "practical use". Practical use means that you can actually build or make something of value with the product in question. The prices for all of these things are almost certainly based on the conversion rate between Bitcoin and the US dollar (or other major currencies). If Bitcoin massively deflates you may be able to still do those things, but it will cost many more Bitco…

I see your point, and I see I misunderstood the OP's point too. Thanks!

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#78

Post by VirtruTyler »

jorgec wrote: post #64
anovikov wrote: post #47

Why am i not surprised? Nearly all or maybe all ICOs since May have been a deliberate scam. That is beyond the word 'bubble'. That is just it - collective scam. Crowdsourced Bernie Madoff.

Exactly. People pay real money and get nothing in exchange. Plus, its amazing how people don't get how the system works.

The vast majority of people don't understand how our existing financial systems work either.

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#79

Post by Singletoned »

jorgec wrote: post #64
anovikov wrote: post #47

Why am i not surprised? Nearly all or maybe all ICOs since May have been a deliberate scam. That is beyond the word 'bubble'. That is just it - collective scam. Crowdsourced Bernie Madoff.

Exactly. People pay real money and get nothing in exchange. Plus, its amazing how people don't get how the system works.

I'd be genuinely interested to find out what you feel is real about the money compared to the nothing you got in exchange?

Also how does the system work from your point of view?

Re: Crypto-currencies have lost 30% of their value in the last 3 weeks

#80

Post by h1d »

jorgec wrote: post #64
anovikov wrote: post #47

Why am i not surprised? Nearly all or maybe all ICOs since May have been a deliberate scam. That is beyond the word 'bubble'. That is just it - collective scam. Crowdsourced Bernie Madoff.

Exactly. People pay real money and get nothing in exchange. Plus, its amazing how people don't get how the system works.

Because you don't need to, to get some return.
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