161–170 of 175 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How shitty do the employees get during the consultation period?
Often there is no requirement that they come in during this period, it's one form of "gardening leave".
* officially made
I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…
Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…
Few minutes later we realised he had run "rm -rf" on the central source code repository.
Restored from backup in a couple of hours, but I'll never repeat that experiment.
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I have observed a different phenomenon: in the last 10 years, "startup culture" has swept over India. There is very little innovative or cutting edge being done in the US either outside of the universities (where many of the researchers are Indian) and a few big companies (Google, Facebook, et al -- who all have large engineering offices in India as well). Honestly, I find it easier to hire for skills like AWS, node.…
Though it is easier to hire people with skills in XYZ tech, it's important to note that Indian IT companies have bred a culture of knowledge purely on paper. A civil engineer/Electrical Engineer/ Electronics Engineer / Industrial Engineer / etc, just out of college, joins a services company as a "developer" with a pay around 5000 USD a year, works for a few years on, say SQL, goes to the local "IT training institute"…
More than anything else, this is the most important reason. Indians for some reason have fancied middle management bureaucratic roles above real work almost forever. This is not just in IT, but the very economic ecosystem of India has this problem. We are talking about a country where even house wives do a distance education MBA course because 'Just in case... I would be a manager someday' kind of attitude.
Not one person wants to do any real work. And over long times its impossible to sustain growth without productivity.
So there will be a inevitable decline in the overall ecosystem at some point in time. But my guess is those who wish to do work will always have good projects to chase after.
The IT ecosystem on the longer run will resemble every other engineering services industry in India. Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, Electrical etc. Niche areas where good talent will be required and there will always be a supply. Noise, garbage and me too attitude people will largely be gone.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though it is easier to hire people with skills in XYZ tech, it's important to note that Indian IT companies have bred a culture of knowledge purely on paper. A civil engineer/Electrical Engineer/ Electronics Engineer / Industrial Engineer / etc, just out of college, joins a services company as a "developer" with a pay around 5000 USD a year, works for a few years on, say SQL, goes to the local "IT training institute"…
>>Add to that, an "IT" engineer expects to be a "Technical Lead" in a matter of 5-6 years, a "Team Lead" in a matter of 8 years and a "Project Manager" in about 12 years of experience. My numbers for the years maybe a bit off though. More than anything else, this is the most important reason. Indians for some reason have fancied middle management bureaucratic roles above real work almost forever. This is not just in…
I have seen people reject good technical roles to pursue pseudo management roles.
Its almost as if they are afraid to take on challanging technical roles.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…
Anecdote: I had to terminate a contractor; he said "ok, I understand, can I just send a quick email to say goodbye?", so I let him walk back to his desk where he typed for a minute. Few minutes later we realised he had run "rm -rf" on the central source code repository. Restored from backup in a couple of hours, but I'll never repeat that experiment.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though it is easier to hire people with skills in XYZ tech, it's important to note that Indian IT companies have bred a culture of knowledge purely on paper. A civil engineer/Electrical Engineer/ Electronics Engineer / Industrial Engineer / etc, just out of college, joins a services company as a "developer" with a pay around 5000 USD a year, works for a few years on, say SQL, goes to the local "IT training institute"…
>>Add to that, an "IT" engineer expects to be a "Technical Lead" in a matter of 5-6 years, a "Team Lead" in a matter of 8 years and a "Project Manager" in about 12 years of experience. My numbers for the years maybe a bit off though. More than anything else, this is the most important reason. Indians for some reason have fancied middle management bureaucratic roles above real work almost forever. This is not just in…
One could argue they have the right idea. At most companies (tech or non-tech), the career advancement path for a software developer pretty much ends at "Senior Software Engineer". Some places offer a "Staff Software Engineer" or "Principal Software Engineer" but your career growth is pretty much over once you get there, unless you want to jump into management, where the sky is the limit.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Add to that, an "IT" engineer expects to be a "Technical Lead" in a matter of 5-6 years, a "Team Lead" in a matter of 8 years and a "Project Manager" in about 12 years of experience. My numbers for the years maybe a bit off though. More than anything else, this is the most important reason. Indians for some reason have fancied middle management bureaucratic roles above real work almost forever. This is not just in…
> Indians for some reason have fancied middle management bureaucratic roles above real work almost forever. One could argue they have the right idea. At most companies (tech or non-tech), the career advancement path for a software developer pretty much ends at "Senior Software Engineer". Some places offer a "Staff Software Engineer" or "Principal Software Engineer" but your career growth is pretty much over once you…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Nearly everyone spends too much of their income and saves too little for retirement/emergencies, so losing your job unexpectedly can have devastating financial consequences." UK: in larger organisations (I mean big enough to have more than say 20 employees being made redundant) there is a consultation process that lasts a month or can last up to three months depending on the number of people being made redundant. Th…
How shitty do the employees get during the consultation period?
As pointed out below, the consultation period is before those being made redundant are (officially) selected. In large organisations - for extra fun - you have things called 'redundancy pools' based around areas of work or grades that all share a risk of redundancy but only (e.g.) 5 out of 25 will actually be made redundant. I should also point out that larger orgs often offer voluntary redundancy at enhanced terms within given 'pools' - unions where they exist will often bargain for enhanced terms.
Not a pleasant time but does give people weeks/months to find something else and take what financial precautions they can - and perhaps decide that 'VR' (voluntary redundancy) is possibly attractive. Yes, you do lose good people sometimes.
> Saying “You're Fired!” in a nicer tone is not likely “preserve the dignity of the individual.” The guy on the receiving end is still going to get the same message: he’s out of a job and has bills to pay. I disagree. Sometimes layoffs are unavoidable, but you can fire someone with dignity. I think both tone and substance matter here. For tone, management should be civil, polite and respectful. Acknowledge the employ…
I think we agree broadly FWIW.
The Indian IT situation has reached somewhat of a breaking point, hence the current situation unfolding. The real low level stuff is now being increasingly automated thus eliminating the need for cheap labor to do such tasks. At the same time the Indian firms never quite managed to broadly move up the value chain into more innovative and cutting edge areas, which is still very much the realm of local offices of their…
I'm seeing a move to eastern Europe from India for support level work. The time zone and language barriers are much easier there than India as well as the cost structures are inline generally.
This isn't a slight, it is simply culture. There are many cultures where saying "no" is rude or offensive. Unfortunately, this is very difficult to translate remotely, and requires a long time of cultural assimilation.
I manage a lot of "offshore" staff, and have done for about 10 years now. I'll have the Eastern Europeans/Russians any time, also because frequently the outright or muttered "are you stupid?" is followed by a "here is how you should do this", which many times turns out to be a good way doing what I want done.
My team can call me stupid as much as they like, if it results in a better product/service.