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Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

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Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#91

Post by swiley »

criddell wrote: post #73
lwansbrough wrote: post #48

This is hard, but perhaps even harder than you might think. I read an extremely long exploration of this concept a couple weeks ago. It's a layman explanation but it really does a great job of outlining the real complications of such a device. Here's the article: https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html One takeaway that gives you the sense of scale: there are at least 40,000 neurons in 1mm^3 of the cerebral cor…

Modern CPUs have on the order of 10 billion transistors and we have a pretty good idea of how those work. In my (uneducated) opinion, it feels like current tech must be close to providing the tools and scale necessary to start figuring this stuff out, no?

Most modern semiconductors are fairly flat (or are "3d" but it's the 90s autocad kind of "3d" where you have some number of layers.)

Semiconductors are really fairly simple in comparison.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#92

Post by beachbum8029 »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

Just make sure not a forget a very important phrase: ignorance is bliss.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#93

Post by fenwick67 »

beachbum8029 wrote: post #92
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

Just make sure not a forget a very important phrase: ignorance is bliss.

This this this... being intelligent will not make you happy.

I wouldn't take hyperintelligence for free.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#94

Post by thinkfurther »

WalterBright wrote: post #69
frenchie4111 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other, and much more likely in my opinion, future is that developing this kind of technology will cause us to "fix" our society, or rather society will grow to support the new technology. It is unlikely that private business will relinquish it's control willingly, we must aim for a future that makes private business irrelevant (massive automation removing the need for humans to "pay" for anything)

I'm curious why you worry about control by business, but not control by the government?

My government, in theory, derives every last bit if its power from my consent and the consent of my peers; and in so far practice diverges from that, that can be corrected or at least discussed. Even foreign governments at least have that relation with someone, even if they don't have it with me. With private enterprises, there isn't even anything to correct or discuss from their perspective. They're "pure tyrannies", as Chomsky put it, while governments are theoretically democratic. The magic free market turning selfish bastards fighting each other instead of entropy into some useful force doesn't seem to be enough just by itself.

Though now that I think of it, if people got their shit together in the ways required to kick their own governments in the dick where required, that would also translate to paying attention with how we vote with our wallets (it also would translate to any corp trying just one line of cutesy marketing-speak of sinking to the bottom before you can say iceberg, which would improve the world by orders of magnitude within one week), so in the end maybe "capitalism or communism", or anything of that nature, matters much less than the individuals do... after all you can't polish turds, and you don't need to array gold nicely for it to shine.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#95

Post by k_lander »

captainmuon wrote: post #20
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

I think we should really fix society before we develop that kind of technology. We need a socio-cultural breaktrough of the same magnitude as the technological breakthrough. Something on par with the development of monotheism, enlightenment, capitalism, or democracy. A "communistic" utopia (for lack of a better word) without the flaws of its historical implementations. Then the question is moot. There is no private b…

i don't think any technology should be put on hold because society isn't perfect especially when said technology has the potential to improve society immensely.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#96

Post by WalterBright »

thinkfurther wrote: post #94
WalterBright wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you worry about control by business, but not control by the government?

My government, in theory, derives every last bit if its power from my consent and the consent of my peers; and in so far practice diverges from that, that can be corrected or at least discussed. Even foreign governments at least have that relation with someone , even if they don't have it with me. With private enterprises, there isn't even anything to correct or discuss from their perspective. They're "pure tyrannies…

The rookie cop his first day on the job has more power over you than Bill Gates does.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#97

Post by AndrewKemendo »

captainmuon wrote: post #89
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to change people, I want to change society. Somehow you think those are different things and I'm not sure why. Society only changes when enough people individually change. You can force change through government or coercion, but it's temporary and unsustainable. utopia doesn't work because people are flawed. Right, I'd agree with that.

What I mean is, I don't want Utopia for some kind of Adornoian "liberated human" or socialist übermensch, I want an Utopia in which I myself can live. Despite my flawed socialisation and biology. I think we can refactor society, instead of reforming or revolutionizing it. Keep the same people, don't coerce them into anything. Don't wait for future technological improvements, but reap the benefits of centuries of prev…

I personally think that is impossible. It would be like training a rat to sing opera. We don't fundamentally have the hardware that would allow it.

We have been technically able to satisfy the needs of everybody from a purely material point of view for decades now.

"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need but not every man's greed" - Gandhi

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#98

Post by thinkfurther »

WalterBright wrote: post #96
thinkfurther wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My government, in theory, derives every last bit if its power from my consent and the consent of my peers; and in so far practice diverges from that, that can be corrected or at least discussed. Even foreign governments at least have that relation with someone , even if they don't have it with me. With private enterprises, there isn't even anything to correct or discuss from their perspective. They're "pure tyrannies…

The rookie cop his first day on the job has more power over you than Bill Gates does.

When someone misses a train because of some forced Windows update, they just call the police and they force Bill Gates to fix that right up.

How about this instead, just imagine I'm so dumb that you have to spell your point out fully. I don't get what you're trying to say, what rookie cop? A specific one, or "the" rookie cop, every single one? And who is Bill Gates? If it's not worth spelling it out for you it's not worth trying to speculate for me.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#99

Post by abecedarius »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

Deaf people today face a similar choice: getting a cochlear implant, you don't control the software (afaik). This is a significant part of why I still have no cochlear implant. If we want freedom of thought in the glorious transhuman future, well, that could evolve out of what's happening today, and we ought to value human autonomy more in today's systems.

DRM is another such arena: as I said in another thread the other day, do you want it enforced by your brain implant? No? Then think about how you want to allow the issue to get framed.

Ditto for compelled decryption.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#100

Post by frenchie4111 »

WalterBright wrote: post #69
frenchie4111 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other, and much more likely in my opinion, future is that developing this kind of technology will cause us to "fix" our society, or rather society will grow to support the new technology. It is unlikely that private business will relinquish it's control willingly, we must aim for a future that makes private business irrelevant (massive automation removing the need for humans to "pay" for anything)

I'm curious why you worry about control by business, but not control by the government?

I don't really see those as different entities. Governments are just businesses with a different name. I pay them for a service.
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