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24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#451

Post by kyteland »

E6300 wrote: post #347
deelowe wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pro tip with 7z is to use the two pane interface to extract and not dragging files to Explorer. The latter option extracts the files to a temp directory before copying them whereas the former extracts directly to the destination. That's insane. I had no idea. Thanks for the tip!

It's because the 7-Zip file manager first extracts to %temp% and then copies (not moves) to the drop location. If you use the regular extract function it extracts to the destination directly. Using the Explorer context menu does the same thing, and thus is also fast.

I use the right click context menu on the archive file to 'Extract Here' which seems to accomplish the same thing.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#452

Post by eecc »

masklinn wrote: post #36
eecc wrote: post #25

so basically a fork-bomb. I think Linux can still buckle under one, nothing that obscene...

A fork bomb exhausts all system resources, this is not that, it doesn't actually use any resources, rather it locks the system out of them by serialising both process termination and UI updates.

Well, a fork bomb doesn't really use anything except it makes the process table management extremely time consuming. Not quite the same, but still conceptually similar

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#454

Post by captainmuon »

msla wrote: post #376
captainmuon wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that we are doing the web browser wrong? I think large parts of chrome actually belong into the OS. The network parts, the drawing library (skia), the crypto implementation, the window and tab management, and so on. The javascript engine could be factored out, too, so more apps could benefit from it (without bundling a whole frickin Chromium). Video and audio would be deferred to DirectShow, Quartz, VLC,…

I'd be wary of moving the crypto into the OS, because OS upgrades are few and far between. Browsers are easier to upgrade, as we know from the rather aggressive auto-upgrade cycles of Chrome and Firefox, whereas if you have bad and/or now-known-to-be-insecure crypto in the OS, well, you're stuck with it for the foreseeable future. People are still running Windows XP.

Why can't a library be part of the OS and updated frequently? If it is critical to update, why shouldn't all apps benefit from it? Why can MS update code in Edge frequently, but shouldn't be able to update a .dll as frequently?

Ideally, I'd want critical code (encryption, code signing, bootloaders, kernels, runtimes) to be from a trusted vendor, and preferably simple and open source. I trust the MS, Apple, Google of 2017 not to completely fuck it up. (We already trust them as browser vendors.)

I don't care if the keep calc.exe stable for 10 years, but I expect them to patch crypto.dll immediately. You could do that stealthily, outside of major updates, as it has no user facing changes.

The benefit of this model is that it allows third party apps from small vendors to profit from the up to date security that only the tech Giants can provide.

The downside is of course that it is quite hard to maintain perfect backwards compatibility while pushing updates, but if the components and APIs are small enough I think it is possible.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#455

Post by staofbur »

andrewflnr wrote: post #444
staofbur wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually annoys me badly. One of the problems I see regularly is applications that fail to log enough of the stack to see what the entry point of the thing that actually went wrong is because the syslog packet size is set to 512 bytes. The problem is clearly syslog then, not the 12KiB of stack your app throws when something goes pop!?!?

Um, yeah, the problem is someone setting an arbitrary limit because it was easier to implement. To argue otherwise is basically to claim that there is no possible justification for a deep stack, which, well, good luck proving that. Anyway, even if I don't like all that abstraction (I don't), I may not have a choice in platform (or logging system), so blaming useless syslog messages on the app developer is adding insu…

The arbitrary limit is a performance thing. Fits neatly in one UDP datagram and passes through everything unhampered by MTU etc.

Agree that burning the whole thing down is the right thing when you get to this place :)

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#456

Post by staofbur »

kuschku wrote: post #375
taw55 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck on improving the situation as long as you have people running around who consider this all fine and normal. https://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/java-call-stack-f...

If you think Java or Ruby is bad, don’t even try looking at the JS ecosystem.

I still can't face looking at the JS ecosystem after dealing with Netscape 4 back in the day. It did me some psychological damage which will never go away.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#457

Post by dm319 »

blunte wrote: post #37

This is great work. I hope MS can improve Windows 10 by fixing this. I just added a new Win10 laptop with much better specs than my 3 year old rMBP, and I'm shocked by how much apparently random latency I experience with the UI in Windows 10 compared to the Mac. That's not to mention the issues of sloppier track pad (which constantly detects my left hand while I type) or the ungodly slow unzip (via 7z). If only Apple…

The latency and unzipping problems can be solved with linux. Though the trackpad could get worse. The random latency and unexplained HD activity always offended me in Windows - it is _my_ laptop after-all!

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#458

Post by captainmuon »

korzun wrote: post #369
captainmuon wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that we are doing the web browser wrong? I think large parts of chrome actually belong into the OS. The network parts, the drawing library (skia), the crypto implementation, the window and tab management, and so on. The javascript engine could be factored out, too, so more apps could benefit from it (without bundling a whole frickin Chromium). Video and audio would be deferred to DirectShow, Quartz, VLC,…

You are going backward with the 'Internet Explorer' like buy-in. That approach would only be faster in one segment; everything else will be slower. There is no point in speeding up the raw compile time by a couple of minutes if you are increasing the development and testing time by a couple of weeks.

What does IE have to do with this? And I don't think this will increase development time. If anything, it will allow people to innovate faster, since it is easier to contribute.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#459

Post by lobster_johnson »

iainmerrick wrote: post #338
cdoxsey wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important point about Go in this case is that it's fundamentally more efficient because it has real modules and can do incremental compilation. Sometimes people don't realize this because they always use `go build` which, as the result of a design flaw, discards the incremental objects. When you use `go install` (or `go build -i`) each subsequent build is super fast.

Huh, really? Why is that? Non-incremental builds shouldn't be needed at all, but besides that, just based on the names I'd expect `go build` to be the cheap one and `go install` to be the expensive one.

It's unfortunately not a well-known feature. The Go extension to VSCode was using "go build" (without "-i") for a long time, and if you're working on something big like Kubernetes, it's almost impossible to work with.

The annoying thing is that "go install" also installs binaries if you run it against a "main" package. I believe the only way to build incrementally for all cases without installing binaries is to use "-o /dev/null" in the main case.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#460

Post by captainmuon »

naasking wrote: post #357
captainmuon wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that we are doing the web browser wrong? I think large parts of chrome actually belong into the OS. The network parts, the drawing library (skia), the crypto implementation, the window and tab management, and so on. The javascript engine could be factored out, too, so more apps could benefit from it (without bundling a whole frickin Chromium). Video and audio would be deferred to DirectShow, Quartz, VLC,…

> I think large parts of chrome actually belong into the OS. The network parts, the drawing library (skia), the crypto implementation, the window and tab management, and so on. The problem is cross-platform support. Depending on the OS is obvious if every OS supported the required features.

But all of that is already cross platform.

When I say e.g. skia should be part of the OS, I don't neccessarily mean MS should ship it and update it yearly. I mean Google should still ship and auto update it, but also go though the effort of documenting it, maintaining strict backwards compatible APIs, and letting other programs consume it. I don't care who the actual vendor is. I know that's a lot to ask for, but OTOH it is insane to statically link that kind of code. Especially if you have multiple electron apps, that would work fine with a shared runtime.

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