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24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#401

Post by ksk »

mrstone wrote: post #392
ksk wrote: post #358

Speaking of W10, there was another annoying W10 bug where if you started typing immediately after using the touchpad there was a random delay. If you care about latency and responsiveness, it makes you want to scream at the people who implement these features.

That's not a bug. It's some kind of feature by Symantec that can be disabled in the settings.

Haha, it never crossed my mind that someone would implement this purposely. I don't have a W10 laptop so I've only noticed this on other peoples machines.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#402

Post by pjmlp »

pcwalton wrote: post #384
jhasse wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the same thing a year ago. It didn't happen. See this 2016 roadmap from August 2015 for example: https://blog.rust-lang.org/2015/08/14/Next-year.html

Incremental compilation is something that no major compiler for any ahead-of-time compiled language anywhere does. It's one of the most advanced features in any compiler, and as such it's taking time to implement. No C++ compiler I know of is even thinking of it. As the first post here in this thread mentions, going down the C++ road of header files might have gotten us some short term wins, but ultimately it hits a…

I surely do consider Visual C++ a major compiler for any ahead-of-time compiled language.

It does incremental compilation and incremental linking.

I would be quite happy if cargo was half as fast as my UWP projects.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#403

Post by twobyfour »

Houshalter wrote: post #396
twobyfour wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst is when this happens when you're not doing anything that should be computationally intensive, just entering text in a web app that abuses JavaScript.

Even just entering text into the search bar uses loads of resources. Every character entered does a full search of your history and bookmarks, sends a request to Google to do autocomplete, prefetches the web page you are typing, applies spellcheck, etc.

Sure, but I for one have yet to experience input lag typing into a URL bar when my computer wasn't otherwise under extremely heavy load.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#404

Post by frozenport »

p0nce wrote: post #363
andrepd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Damn, are we doing this wrong? Give me a tool that's: (i) as fast, (ii) as mature and well supported, (iii) as powerful as C++ and I will switch in a heartbeat. But until there is such an alternative it's futile to complain about the shortcomings of C++, because if you want the powerful, zero-cost abstractions, the mountains of support, and access to billions of existing lines of code, you pretty much have nowhere…

So: a C++ competitor shall beat it in every dimension you've choosen, until then it's futile to complain about the shortcomings of C++. This doesn't sounds very logical, only like a case of sampling bias.

Unfortunately some projects have an "everything" requirement. That is to say the software must be fast, and written in a way that interface close to the metal. We need to do a lot of parallel processing. Now it's C++ or Rust. Then we need a GUI, and CUDA so we're down to C++. That's why project uses C++.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#405

Post by Shorel »

striking wrote: post #279
gizmo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dilemma. You can have both. It's okay if a fully optimized release mode binary takes a bit longer to compile, but compiling a few million lines of code for a debug build shouldn't take more than a second or two. Also consider the leverage factor. Improvements to the compiler benefit all users of the programming language, so it's worthwhile to invest in high quality compilers.

In what language can we have both? Yes, we can use caching compilers ( https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ccache ) to speed up builds with few changes. We can lower optimization levels (although that barely gives you an increase in compile speed compared to the runtime speed you lose and the fact that it makes your program do slightly different things). There's no slider from "pessimum" to "optimum". You need to do…

> In what language can we have both?

D has very fast compilation times compared with C++.

Rust is another option.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#406

Post by mmarks »

brucedawson wrote: post #365
mmarks wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to take away from your point, but in my experience the vast majority of C++ build pipelines even at major companies can still be improved. Few people enjoy 'improving the build', it often touches everything, and requires discipline to keep it working. Most of the projects I've worked on have been larger than Chrome, I've seen the compile time for BioShock Infinite go from 2 hours down to 15 minutes with serious w…

A lot of time has been spent on optimizing Chrome's build: - Ninja build system will perfectly parallelize the build without overloading resources (modulo this OS bug) - Meta-build system was recently completely replaced (gyp-> gn) to improve builds - Lots of work on clang-cl to allow compiling Chrome for Windows without using Microsoft's compiler - Distributed build system to further increase parallelism So, lots of…

Unity builds are a big win in Unreal Engine and basically required w/Unreal, the actual win is surprising large.

EDIT: I'm sure lots of work has been done, not trying to degrade that. Just sharing my experience on my projects, never worked with Chrome.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#407

Post by wirelessest »

titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

Heh, good to hear Google feels this pain, too. I work on the chromium codebase, and a 1 hour clean compile on a macbook pro seems optimistic.

Luckily ninja and ccache do a good job of meaning you only ever do that once (and rsync solved that problem for us). Not that a 20-second compile for a one line change is something I should be content with, but it's certainly workable.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#408

Post by mamcx »

titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

> Damn, are we doing this wrong?

SUPER-wrong.

With all the time-loss, money-loss, opportunity-loss, C/C++/Js must have been rule out as the worst tools for our job decades ago, by ANY RATIONAL ENGINER.

And instead of band-aid them, the sane path is to freeze them and only apply critical patch and use something else. And other options are already know, have been proved and could have be a better foundation, except because developers are irrational like hell and don't wanna true progress at all.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#409

Post by marcosdumay »

SolarNet wrote: post #383
vborovikov wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so big?

It's an operating system (pretending to be a browser).

It is also an interpreter for a big number of convoluted (and a bigger still of non-convoluted) languages.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#410

Post by ghostly_s »

weinzierl wrote: post #16

I grew up on the Commodore 64 (1 Core, 1 hyper-thread :-), almost 1 MHz clock freq, almost 64 K usable RAM). The machine was usually pretty responsive, but when I typed too quickly in my word processor it sometimes got stuck and ate a few characters. I used to think: "If computers were only fast enough so I could type without interruption...". If you'd asked me back then for a top ten list what I wished computers cou…

Weird that no-one here is mentioning how Windows is the only platform that still has this problem.

UI threads on a graphical desktop should always be the most privileged processes.

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