Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Indian IT, “You're Fired”

linkedin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 175 posts

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#101

Post by LanceH »

mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Call a company meeting. Tell everyone who is staying to sneak out before hand and not attend the meeting. Lay off everyone at the meeting while you lock them out of their computers. Do this on the last day of the month so nobody has insurance the next day.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#103

Post by mamon »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #60
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

Are you sure that's not because it is unusual for an IT specialist in Poland to be fired in the first place? Most of the time it is an employee giving notice because he's got a better offer elsewhere, not being laid off.

I've actually seen such thing in Poland for a DB admin - the guy was asked to come to his manager's office where he was told that he's fired, and other admins used that time to change all the production DB passwords.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#104

Post by oblio »

iaskwhy wrote: post #66
pavlov wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…

I've seen this happening in the UK to around 40 colleagues at 10am one day. I'm assuming it's because it's a sensitive job information-wise so one is not allowed to touch his computer anymore. I've heard non-contractors still get paid the missing weeks as per their contract, they're just not allowed in the building. It's miserable, by the way. The mood continues in a low for months when it happens.

I was working for an famous US company in their Romanian offices. When I resigned nobody escorted me out of the premises.

And that's:

- in a developing country

- in a country not known for its excellent reputation regarding fraud, corruption, theft, etc.

- as an employee holding the "keys to the kingdom" (access to multiple production environments, admin level access to source control systems used by 90% of the company's products, etc., etc.)

I know that I wasn't fired, I resigned, so things are not quite the same, but people who were fired got the same treatment. Just leave the company stuff behind, pack your personal stuff and leave at date X.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#105

Post by gautamdivgi »

hyeonwho2 wrote: post #86
nonamechicken wrote: post #47

I personally don't have any issue in Indian companies firing people at will. But they don't give employees the same freedom. All these IT companies have a 2-3 months notice period. This makes it difficult to look for another job. If they want to fire at will, I should be able to walk out at will as well. But if I do that, I will not get my resignation letter and service certificate (I am not worried about the final p…

Sorry, but if you were already offered the next job, does the next employer really care about a severance certificate? Why is a severance certificate important in India?

I'm not sure it really is - but it could be. I think it depends on the hidebound bureaucracy of the company you're applying to. It's been a while since I've worked in India (close to 20 years now). So things have most likely changed massively. When I was there I've known of folks who just quit and folks who gave a decent notice. Those that stayed the notice period got a severance certificate. Those that just quit didn't get one. I don't believe it impacted careers much. That time the notice period was 1 month, not ideal like the US 15-day notice but not too bad either (1 month was the pay period). When I left I negotiated the notice period down to 3 weeks. 2 to 3 months notice is oppressive.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#107

Post by TheCoelacanth »

pc86 wrote: post #53
jacobr1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to make it more humane is a generous severance.

Severance just accelerates the firing process. If you've got to provide 3 months severance, you're laying people off at least 3 months sooner than you otherwise would. I'm sure there have been companies contemplating layoffs that have been able to just barely make numbers to avoid it. Not arguing against severance just saying that "well throw some money at them" doesn't necessarily make it any better.

Accelerating it is exactly what makes it more humane. You now have 3 months to find another job instead of immediately losing income.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#108

Post by jermaustin1 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #30
kemiller2002 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some valid reasons for it. It's sad the way that it happens, but I've been there on occasion where they didn't do that. One stats guy decided he was angry that it happened . . . . he started deleting all the loss curve data we needed off of the network. There was a hurry to stop him which resulted in the network staff having to unplug all the cables from the routers. Hours of having to put the cable back in…

What you need to do immediately before informing an employee that you are letting them go is revoke their access to critical systems and/or disable their accounts. That way, you can allow them to go back to their desk and say their goodbyes to their coworkers without risking them doing silly stuff like delete data.

This leads to people who are sick finding out before they are fired, that they are fired. Happened at a client's place a couple years ago, they letting go of all the senior sysadmins, killed their credentials, then fired them. 2 of the admins were out sick, and they lost their email, and their access to the monitoring tools.

When the employees came in, they were escorted by "guards" to get their stuff, and not allowed to say goodbye to anyone. That said, they were allowed in the next day as a guest with no issues.

Company's assume the worst of people so they put in all these policies and procedures instead of treating adults like adults. If the adult decided to delete something. Charge them with a crime. I would go ahead and guess that no one that was laid off in that time would have done something so brazen.

Last I had lunch with any of them, they were doing better in their new gigs. More money or freedom.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#109

Post by emodendroket »

baursak wrote: post #62
emodendroket wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there's no fundamental law of the universe that says we have to just accept that unconditionally and let them do whatever they please.

You're right, capitalism is not a fundamental law of the universe.

Even without abandoning a generally capitalist framework you can impose restrictions on what corporations can do. Even among countries with a capitalist system the American system is unique in how easy it is to fire people.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#110

Post by syshum »

Clubber wrote: post #56
nonamechicken wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don't you have unemployment benefits and social security? In India, there is nothing.

It's pretty paltry in the US. You can't take social security until 65 (I think it's 67 now). You get unemployment but it's administered at the state level and in most states it caps out at under $800 a month, but it's been a while. A moderate mortgage is twice that. Also, we get our health benefits from companies and not the government, so as soon as you are laid off, all your health benefits are no longer paid by th…

>>You get unemployment but it's administered at the state level and in most states it caps out at under $800 a month, but it's been a while.

My state is 50% of your pay upto ~$1,500 a month, this seems to be about the average, i can find no state that under $800, the lowest is Mississippi coming in at $940

http://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-be...

> A moderate mortgage is twice that.

That depends on where you live, using Mississipi as an example, the average home is $113,000 with a traditional mortgage the payment would be $576 no where near the $1,600 you caim is a "moderate mortgage"

In my area in the midwest the average home is closer to $150,000 however that still would not be a $1,600 mortgage

That would be about a $360,000 mortgage, almost double the national average home price

>>On top of that, US companies don't like hiring people who have been laid off.

This has largely been disproved as a myth or as out dated thinking, that may have been the case 20 or more years ago, but I do not believe that is the case today

>The US still hasn't gotten over it and it's been going on full force for 20+ years now.

The US still has not gotten over it but it has not "been going full force" for 20 years, far from it.

Government Intervention in the market, and various other factors masked some systemic problems, in the attempt to prevent more damage the government and other actors have simply band aided over the problems that are now a festering infection just waiting to be exposed

Post reply on HN