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Indian IT, “You're Fired”

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Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#81

Post by [deleted] »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #54
shagie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that. What I do see is a recognition that only in specific cases with well defined product boundaries does outsourcing development work reasonably. On the other hand we see many companies recognizing that telecommuting and remote work, especially with things that have no end date (keep the servers running, fix the bugs, add these new features) have hidden costs. Those costs are often exasperated by time z…

> There are many entry level positions open, just you need to be able to be in the chair. This statement proves my point exactly. Either you need to be skilled enough to have the leverage to work remotely, or you need to be lucky enough to live in one of the few cities that happen to be growing economically at the moment. When economic growth and opportunity for the unskilled is concentrated to such a small portion o…

[deleted]

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#82

Post by camiller »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #60
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

I'm in the US, and on a contract sure, as a contractor I was once told 7 weeks before that my contract was not being continued (new CIO put a freeze on all new hiring/contracts/contract extensions while they evaluated workload). That contract had already been extended twice.

Also once, as an employee not a contractor, I was laid off and while I was given time to say some farewells to colleagues I was politely asked not to attempt to log in. I had worked there long enough that I received 6 months severance pay so I had time to get another job.

FWIW, All of my career has been in the American mid-west in "employment at will" states. I've never been asked to sign a contract as an normal employee.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#83

Post by nonamechicken »

pavlov wrote: post #32
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…

This happened to one of my colleagues working in an Indian IT company. Instead of security, it was his manager who escorted him out. There was nothing sensitive about his project either.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#84

Post by jussij »

nonamechicken wrote: post #40
aNoob7000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment. The author seems taken back by the callousness of the cuts, but this is nothing new in the United States or even in other western countries. I think Indian IT firms have gotten a free ride for many years using labor arbitrage. Now that there's a whiff of protectionism in the air from the United States and cloud computing is surging things aren't so easy anymore.

These jobs would have been automated regardless of whether it was in India or US.

The irony is the argument, which asks for the human damage is considered when considering the fate of the workforce.

In reality, as was the case in the past and will continue into the future, the cheap workforce will always be replaced with something that is cheaper.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#85

Post by Akath19 »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #60
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

It's mostly a US (not American, America is a continent after all) thing.

In Latin America getting laid off means being called to HR in the morning around 10:00am and getting told "you're being let go, please clean out your desk, fill in your boss on any pending work and finish your workday"

I've only seen one person escorted out of the building in the US way and that was because he was stealing corporate info.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#86

Post by hyeonwho2 »

nonamechicken wrote: post #47

I personally don't have any issue in Indian companies firing people at will. But they don't give employees the same freedom. All these IT companies have a 2-3 months notice period. This makes it difficult to look for another job. If they want to fire at will, I should be able to walk out at will as well. But if I do that, I will not get my resignation letter and service certificate (I am not worried about the final p…

Sorry, but if you were already offered the next job, does the next employer really care about a severance certificate? Why is a severance certificate important in India?

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#87

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

shagie wrote: post #80
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many entry level positions open, just you need to be able to be in the chair. This statement proves my point exactly. Either you need to be skilled enough to have the leverage to work remotely, or you need to be lucky enough to live in one of the few cities that happen to be growing economically at the moment. When economic growth and opportunity for the unskilled is concentrated to such a small portion o…

My previous job was in the north woods of the Midwest where there are fewer than 75k people living and the next nearest city of more than 25k is an hour drive away. There are several companies there, all hiring at all levels. There are opportunities for entry level work everywhere. However, the demand for living in urban areas with culture events changes the equation to one where employers have the ability to pick an…

You're speaking like someone who happens to live in or around one of the tech hubs of the Midwest. I also live in the Midwest, have several certifications, am 75% through an IT Bachelor's degree, and I have been unable to find tech-related work in the third largest city in my state. Just because your area happens to have work doesn't mean the rest of rural America does.

There's a reason political extremists were nearly our candidates in both parties. There is a widespread sense of economic instability due to large trends that are gutting the middle class and concentrating jobs.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#88

Post by EGreg »

jerry40 wrote: post #63
pavlov wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…

>Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. I saw that in Moscow in 2008 (one big investment bank fired several guys from our team in 20-30 minutes in front of my eyes). It was very unusual. They did now allow a fired person to touch his computer after firing him.

Next: escorting fired people at gunpoint with guards ready to... fire!

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#89

Post by muninn_ »

Akath19 wrote: post #85
skocznymroczny wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

It's mostly a US (not American, America is a continent after all) thing. In Latin America getting laid off means being called to HR in the morning around 10:00am and getting told "you're being let go, please clean out your desk, fill in your boss on any pending work and finish your workday" I've only seen one person escorted out of the building in the US way and that was because he was stealing corporate info.

American refers to people form the United States in colloquial language across the globe, so the person you replied to was correct in their use of American.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#90

Post by hyeonwho2 »

golemotron wrote: post #16

The pathology behind the hypocrisy is the obsession with values we see in corporations today. Let's be clear: work is something we do to provide for ourselves. It is a contract. That contract should not encompass a prescribed belief system, and that is exactly what 'values' are. In the past 30 years we've turned many work environments into quasi-religions where it is expected that employees adhere to particular sets…

Organizations of people are defined by shared values and shared goals. Throw out the values and you throw out the bases for civil communication and conflict resolution within the organization.
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