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Sea Peoples

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Re: Sea Peoples

#11

Post by stan_rogers »

nautikos wrote: post #9
lr4444lr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be confounding two related theories, from what I learned. There is little to no evidence for the Israelites ever being in Egypt, though there was a brief dynastic period (known to ancient historians as Hyksos, IIRC) of Canaanite rulers in Egypt, ostensibly as a brief post-war outcome, and it is possible but without evudence that some Israelites migrated during that time. The "Sea Peoples", a term itse…

This is fascinating to me. From the Wikipedia page, the story of the Hyksos and how they were driven out of Egypt sounds very similar to the book of Exodus. Even the words Hyksos and Exodus sound similar.

Even the words Hyksos and Exodus sound similar.

That comes under the heading "Wacky Coincidences in Liguistics". One means "rulers of foreign lands" in a an older Afro-Asiatic language (a precursor to Coptic); the other is an English retention of a Latin adaptation of a Greek word meaning "the road/path out" (exodos) from the book titles in the Septuagint, all Indo-European. It's related to exit (literally, "he goes out").

Re: Sea Peoples

#13

Post by smacktoward »

I feel like we're seeing a bunch of Bronze Age Collapse stories popping up on the HN homepage lately. Why the pop in interest in the subject? Did it come up on a popular TV show or podcast or something?

(Note: I'm a history nerd, so I'm not complaining. Just legitimately curious.)

Re: Sea Peoples

#14

Post by warpas »

smacktoward wrote: post #13

I feel like we're seeing a bunch of Bronze Age Collapse stories popping up on the HN homepage lately. Why the pop in interest in the subject? Did it come up on a popular TV show or podcast or something? (Note: I'm a history nerd, so I'm not complaining. Just legitimately curious.)

Extra History episode about it every week. Yesterday they released the 3rd one of the series about Bronze Age Collapse. This one was specifically about the Sea People - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-8uv4D7cOE

I've noticed that history topics getting more popularity on HN usually correlate with recent Extra History episodes.

Re: Sea Peoples

#15

Post by newup »

R_haterade wrote: post #3

When I took world history at university, one of the biggest points taken from the bronze age section was that there hadn't been any hard evidence discovered to support an exodus of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan), and that instead the evidence leaned more toward the "Sea Peoples" being the original progenitors of Israel. Can anyone comment on whether this is still the most common accepted theory?

> here hadn't been any hard evidence discovered to support an exodus of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan)..

Why do you equate Canaan with Palestine?

The Exodus is said to have occurred around 1446 BCE. The first clear usage of "Palestine" to refer to that area was much later (5BC) when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê".

Re: Sea Peoples

#16

Post by flukus »

ereyes01 wrote: post #7
csours wrote: post #2

See Also Extra Credits on the Bronze Age Collapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMP328eU5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBM1qazAXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-8uv4D7cOE < This one in particular

Wow thanks, these were great. Can't wait for the next video in that series about the theory of systems collapse. Watching and reading about this stuff, I can't help but think about how prophetic these lessons may turn out to be for the world as we come to grips with the global effects of climate change.

If your interested then here is a good talk on the various contributing factors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4 . Looks like youtube has quite a few more as well.

Re: Sea Peoples

#17

Post by [deleted] »

csours wrote: post #2

See Also Extra Credits on the Bronze Age Collapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMP328eU5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBM1qazAXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-8uv4D7cOE < This one in particular

[deleted]

Re: Sea Peoples

#18

Post by antman »

meseznik wrote: post #12

I recently stumbled upon this lecture, definitely recommended it (Sea Peoples introduced @ 08:20): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4 -1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Eric Cline, PhD)

Also recommend this which is an hour long presentation of his book which is also exceptional.

Re: Sea Peoples

#19

Post by kijin »

newup wrote: post #15
R_haterade wrote: post #3

When I took world history at university, one of the biggest points taken from the bronze age section was that there hadn't been any hard evidence discovered to support an exodus of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan), and that instead the evidence leaned more toward the "Sea Peoples" being the original progenitors of Israel. Can anyone comment on whether this is still the most common accepted theory?

> here hadn't been any hard evidence discovered to support an exodus of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan).. Why do you equate Canaan with Palestine? The Exodus is said to have occurred around 1446 BCE. The first clear usage of "Palestine" to refer to that area was much later (5BC) when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê".

Clear usage, yes, but similar names were known since much earlier. Egyptians in the 12th century BCE refered to a neighboring people (and/or their territory) as "Peleset". The Assyrians called the region "Palashtu" in the 8th century BCE. The Old Testament talks a lot about a close neighbor called "Philistines", with whom the Israelites are said to have fought many wars. So it seems safe to assume that Palestine has been a thing since a long time ago, and that its boundaries fluctuated depending on the political and economic fortunes of various ethnic groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_%22Palest...

Re: Sea Peoples

#20

Post by newup »

kijin wrote: post #19
newup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> here hadn't been any hard evidence discovered to support an exodus of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan).. Why do you equate Canaan with Palestine? The Exodus is said to have occurred around 1446 BCE. The first clear usage of "Palestine" to refer to that area was much later (5BC) when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê".

Clear usage, yes, but similar names were known since much earlier. Egyptians in the 12th century BCE refered to a neighboring people (and/or their territory) as "Peleset". The Assyrians called the region "Palashtu" in the 8th century BCE. The Old Testament talks a lot about a close neighbor called "Philistines", with whom the Israelites are said to have fought many wars. So it seems safe to assume that Palestine has…

Those dates are still well after the Exodus. And Philistines, Palashtu, Peleset are not the same as Palestine which was the name used in R_haterade's comment.

The Israelite exodus was from from Egypt to Canaan, not to "Palestine".

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