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Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

laforge.gnumonks.org

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Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#11

Post by jerrylives »

mindcrime wrote: post #5

The thing is, the world still needs a genuinely open smart-phone. OK, you can pull teeth to root your Android phone and install that successor-to-Cyanogenmod-thing, but we're still far from the openness of the PC ecosystem. Remember being able to build a PC from parts bought piecemeal from ads in Computer Shopper, then install your choice of Microsoft DOS, FreeDOS, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyB…

>Remember being able to build a PC from parts bought piecemeal from ads in Computer Shopper, then install your choice of Microsoft DOS, FreeDOS, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, Solaris x86, OS/2 Warp, BeOS, Minix, Netware, etc., etc?

Uh...you can still do this? Why the past tense

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#12

Post by mikekchar »

emilsedgh wrote: post #4
vsviridov wrote: post #2

It had vision but lacked constraints. The open source bazaar style development delivered 9 projects completed to 10% instead of one completed to 90%. The whole "enlightenment vs qt vs gtk" ui environment all half baked and with spotty feature coverage... But hey, they were the ones that tried.

1) There are still ongoing efforts, including Plasma Mobile. 2) The whole "Qt vs. GTK+" worked perfectly fine on desktop. We have several kickass graphical user interfaces on the desktop. 3) What is preventing FOSS on phones is not software stacks. It's the closed hardware.

> 2) The whole "Qt vs. GTK+" worked perfectly fine on desktop. We have several kickass graphical user interfaces on the desktop.

In fact, as person trying to avoid both KDE and GNOME, I am so glad there was not one concerted effort in desktop environments. It's the only reason I still have choice. Had QT been GPLed originally, I wonder what the world of free desktop software would look like now.

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#13

Post by subway »

ekianjo wrote: post #8
mozartoz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile hardware is a nightmare. The best thing we have to cope with it, so far, is libhybris. And I don't see things getting much better. All we have is Pyra, the incoming Neo900 and semi-closed Jollas with Sailfish.

The Pyra is not going to be released anytime soon, the Neo900 is overpriced... but we do have Plasma Mobile running on a few devices.

The Pyra is a helluva lot closer to shipping than the Neo900. A great many of the components have seen production runs already.

I'm not sure Neo900 has even figured out how competently handle their donated funds, let alone how to get a device to production. ( https://neo900.org/funds-transfer )

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#14

Post by PopePompous »

subway wrote: post #13
ekianjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pyra is not going to be released anytime soon, the Neo900 is overpriced... but we do have Plasma Mobile running on a few devices.

The Pyra is a helluva lot closer to shipping than the Neo900. A great many of the components have seen production runs already. I'm not sure Neo900 has even figured out how competently handle their donated funds, let alone how to get a device to production. ( https://neo900.org/funds-transfer )

The neo900 is so late that it doesn't really matter at this point whether it is ever released at all. You'll have to be a pretty hardcore fan to pay about $1000 for a phone with amateur software and circa 2011 hardware specs, partially made with recycled components.

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#15

Post by mindcrime »

jerrylives wrote: post #11
mindcrime wrote: post #5

The thing is, the world still needs a genuinely open smart-phone. OK, you can pull teeth to root your Android phone and install that successor-to-Cyanogenmod-thing, but we're still far from the openness of the PC ecosystem. Remember being able to build a PC from parts bought piecemeal from ads in Computer Shopper, then install your choice of Microsoft DOS, FreeDOS, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyB…

>Remember being able to build a PC from parts bought piecemeal from ads in Computer Shopper, then install your choice of Microsoft DOS, FreeDOS, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, Solaris x86, OS/2 Warp, BeOS, Minix, Netware, etc., etc? Uh...you can still do this? Why the past tense

Mostly because I was was illustrating that point with certain archaic details (Computer Shopper magazine, OS/2, BeOS, etc.) and it just came out that way. But yes, your point is valid, you certainly can still "do that" in the PC realm. I should have said something like "Compare the smart phone world to the PC world where you can build a PC ..."

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#16

Post by mindcrime »

zphds wrote: post #6

As a Google Summer of Code student way back in 2008 for Openmoko, this brought a lot of memories :).

I was looking for a new phone right before the OpenMoko was supposed to ship, and so I pointedly switched carriers to AT&T just because they were rumored to be the carrier where it was easiest to get an OpenMoko working. I bought a Motorola Atrix to use "until I can get an OpenMoko". Sadly, I never did get my hands on one of them. I don't even remember why now. Either they never shipped in volume at all, or the price was never within reach, or something. Anyway, I've been waiting a long time for a truly open smart-phone... and I'm still waiting. sigh

Maybe one day.

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#17

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

mikekchar wrote: post #12
emilsedgh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) There are still ongoing efforts, including Plasma Mobile. 2) The whole "Qt vs. GTK+" worked perfectly fine on desktop. We have several kickass graphical user interfaces on the desktop. 3) What is preventing FOSS on phones is not software stacks. It's the closed hardware.

> 2) The whole "Qt vs. GTK+" worked perfectly fine on desktop. We have several kickass graphical user interfaces on the desktop. In fact, as person trying to avoid both KDE and GNOME, I am so glad there was not one concerted effort in desktop environments. It's the only reason I still have choice. Had QT been GPLed originally, I wonder what the world of free desktop software would look like now.

The main problem with kde was the decision to rewrite everything for version 4 (and the same goes for gnome 2->3)

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#18

Post by digi_owl »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #17
mikekchar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) The whole "Qt vs. GTK+" worked perfectly fine on desktop. We have several kickass graphical user interfaces on the desktop. In fact, as person trying to avoid both KDE and GNOME, I am so glad there was not one concerted effort in desktop environments. It's the only reason I still have choice. Had QT been GPLed originally, I wonder what the world of free desktop software would look like now.

The main problem with kde was the decision to rewrite everything for version 4 (and the same goes for gnome 2->3)

They went chasing the eyecandy, but ignored that what really cements a platform's utility is API stability...

Re: Ten years after first shipping Openmoko Neo1973

#19

Post by Rjevski »

One of the issues in the open-source movement is the complete disregard for UX. Freedom is a noble goal, but I don't care how free your software/device is if I need to be an engineer and spend hours in the command line to accomplish a simple task.

Until this changes we won't see much progress of open-source in the real world. For such a phone to succeed it needs to be as easy to use (if not more) as its proprietary competitors.

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