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DRM Is Toxic to Culture

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221–230 of 263 posts

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#221
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say that, but I don't think the price levels of current media (particularly digital media) are set to maximize profit. I think they're set to embed an idea of high value, and I'm uncertain of the purpose. It could be for legal reasons, prestige, accounting, I'm not sure. I recently got an Amazon Fire stick, attached to a projector, after many years without any kind of television. Naturally, a projector hittin…

IMO, this is mostly around the pain of spending money not the actual cost of content. Cable runs around 1k/year or more and has advertising, which used to be a fairly normal thing upper middle class people bought. Split that into into individual purchases and your likely spending far less. You just happen to notice that your spending money where subscriptions are a background thing. Also, don't forget Netflix DVD is…

I'm not in the US. The idea of paying 100 GBP per month for cable is alien to me, never mind 200. It's just not worth that much.

Physical media is considerably less expensive than digital media, and has a secondary market. I wouldn't bother with renting physical media ever again.

Imo there's a price corrective missing for digital media.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting a little exhausted in every thread about DRM and the likes to read about how "people don't listen to RMS". People don't listen to RMS because he makes no effort to be listened to and constantly takes absolutist stances which only harm what he defends. In the case of DRM, many people have been talking about this problem for a long time. It's not a matter of consumers not listening, it's a matter of alterna…

> People don't listen to RMS because he makes no effort to be listened to So ... you should only take advice from people who put in extra effort to specifically reach you? > constantly takes absolutist stances The concept of an absolutist stance as an accusation is nonsense, as it's orthogonal to whether it's right. If you are not willing to compromise on slavery, you are taking an absolutist stance. So should people…

I can only listen to so many people. It makes sense to focus my efforts on people who are going to provide the best return on my investment of time.

Meanwhile, absolutism, while not a proof, is a pretty powerful heuristic in the messy real world of economic policy. And yes, this is also a human rights issue, but mostly in the same way that a food or housing shortage is a human rights issue: the roots are economic.

Slavery in particular is a red herring. In almost any other question, compromise is the way to go, so bringing up the extreme case of slavery adds more heat than light.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#223
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you had to waste 1 hour or so in real-time to make a copy (which was degraded anyway). No, you didn't. You either watched while recording, or just started recording, went to do something else and came back in an hour. Either way, the time wasn't wasted.

Why constrain your response to the arguments above? Why not try to answer by covering the whole spectrum and the gist of what I tried to convey? The gist of my argument was about the scalability of today's piracy vs the old time VHS piracy. And that doesn't change just because you could "watch the show you copied" too so "that time wasn't wasted". The "watched while recording" part only makes sense for a show you alr…

In Germany for example there is a specific amount of money you have to pay on devices or storage capacity regarding devices or mediums which reproduce or store data. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe

If you buy a external drive with less than 1TB you pay 7€ extra taxes.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as for your business I obviously can't tell whether it was a deserved market failure, but in the end, it mostly doesn't matter, because DRM is just such a fundamentally broken idea with so many negative externalities that it would be hard to find anything that I couldn't live without if it depended on DRM to exist. However, I wonder about this: > BTW, in case you think we're just being paranoid, we have literal…

The business I mentioned didn't fail. We were just forced to become more aggressive about protecting our IP, and contrary to everyone telling me otherwise, that strategy was very obviously effective even with still a relatively light touch. Like A/B testing a web site and hitting on a simple change that bumps your conversions by 20%, even making something a little less convenient to rip and share can make quite a big…

> The objection to rippers is that we were effectively operating on a form of rental model. If someone is paying a lower price to rent your stuff, you can't let them rip all of it and keep it permanently anyway, and this was explicitly contrary to our terms.

Now, did they ask for help with how to keep it permanently or with ripping it to their own device? You are constantly confusing those. If I paid for some content rental, I sure as hell would expect that I can put a copy of it on my laptop to watch/listen/read while offline on the train, and I would expect support for that.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#225

I would love to see some use cases of what people want to be able to do with DRM'd media that 1) can't be done with current DRM limitations and 2) is within the guidelines of what the distributor allows (or within the rights given by the user's local government). For example, my local library buys a set number of digital licenses for ebooks, so there's a waitlist system for ebooks and each digital copy is time gated…

That situation with library ebooks is widespread and is a prime example of imposed artificial scarcity. It seems silly to force tech that effectively provides unlimited supply to conform to the traditional library model of lending.

I much prefer a donations based model where anyone can read whatever they like, and then donate to the author if they feel inclined.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#226
post #89

Some background: I developed a software binary sandbox, in the 90's; patent cited 500+ times ... mostly by developers of DRM. Now, I am working on an open source project. IMO, DRM extends a presumption of scarcity. Hunters share their meat, whereas farmers guard their harvest. For the hunter, the kill is a short term abundance of value; if it isn't shared, it will spoil. For the farmer, the harvest is a long term sto…

There is no presumption of scarcity, because scarcity is a real phenomenon. There is a vast qualitative difference between the output of ten thousand amateurs and one highly trained and exceptionally talented artist (working in whatever medium.) This an immensely unfashionable idea. But the real problem with DRM isn't that it does or does not enable copying, but that it presupposes that artistic output is a commodity…

> If you want quality as opposed to quantity, you need to set up a feedback function that makes some effort to reward and support quality, based on a more sophisticated metric than a lowest-common-denominator unit sales count in a mass market.

This only holds true if you start with the assumption that the output of those driven only by passion of the art is insufficient in either quantity or quality and must be supplemented with additional output driven by capitalism.

I know I don't know which is the "better" system, but I do believe a sincere discussion must be had along that spectrum ought to happen.

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't listen to RMS because he makes no effort to be listened to So ... you should only take advice from people who put in extra effort to specifically reach you? > constantly takes absolutist stances The concept of an absolutist stance as an accusation is nonsense, as it's orthogonal to whether it's right. If you are not willing to compromise on slavery, you are taking an absolutist stance. So should people…

I can only listen to so many people. It makes sense to focus my efforts on people who are going to provide the best return on my investment of time. Meanwhile, absolutism, while not a proof, is a pretty powerful heuristic in the messy real world of economic policy. And yes, this is also a human rights issue, but mostly in the same way that a food or housing shortage is a human rights issue: the roots are economic. Sl…

> I can only listen to so many people. It makes sense to focus my efforts on people who are going to provide the best return on my investment of time.

And those are the people who have plenty of resources to tailor their message to you because they are funded by some marketing department and therefore are easiest to digest?

> Meanwhile, absolutism, while not a proof, is a pretty powerful heuristic in the messy real world of economic policy.

A heuristic for what exactly? That you shouldn't consider an argument at all?

> And yes, this is also a human rights issue, but mostly in the same way that a food or housing shortage is a human rights issue: the roots are economic.

I am not sure I understand this point, and maybe you can explain, but I think DRM is much closer to privacy and control over your own life as far as its human rights aspects go than to lack of resources.

> Slavery in particular is a red herring. In almost any other question, compromise is the way to go, so bringing up the extreme case of slavery adds more heat than light.

I disagree. Because the concept of "almost any other question" doesn't really make sense. How do you partition the world into distinct questions that you then somehow count to determine what percentage needs a compromise as the answer?

The questions that you actually ask yourself are not useful for this, because you don't ever ask the questions where the status quo is something that you find acceptable and where everyone else agrees with you. But for anything that you think is perfectly fine in this world, you could easily construct a hypothetical world in which our current status quo would be deemed absolutist. So, arguably, everything that you are ok with as it is is actually an absolutist position and not a compromise. Whether something is considered absolutist has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the demand itself, but only with how far out it is from the current mainstream consensus. As soon as the consensus shifts, there is nothing absolutist about it anymore.

Also, you can trivially transform any absolutist demand into a compromise by simply replacing it with a completely crazy demand. I, for example, advocate for killing everyone who has ever said a positive word about DRM. But I would be willing to compromise to only outlaw DRM for the future, so I am not an absolutist, right?

Also, how is it even relevant that it is in almost every other question when you are trying to determine whether it is in the case of this specific question?

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I was expecting something that explains your argument? I mean, unless I completely misunderstood you, you justified DRM by saying that it was ok because it doesn't get in your way ("it's transparent"). And now you are essentially saying that if it did get in your way, that would also be ok, because that's the purpose of DRM. Or in other words: Whether it does get in your way is completely irrelevant as to whe…

I mean, unless I completely misunderstood you, you justified DRM by saying that it was ok because it doesn't get in your way ("it's transparent"). With the extra qualifier that what you're doing is actually permitted/legal, yes, that's essentially my point. That condition rather changes the meaning, though. Indeed, the difference it makes is essentially the point of having DRM in the first place.

> With the extra qualifier that what you're doing is actually permitted/legal, yes, that's essentially my point.

Now, the question is: What do you mean by "permitted/legal"? Permitted by general copyright law, or permitted by the part of the DMCA that specifically makes it illegal to circumvent or share information about how to circumvent DRM?

Re: DRM Is Toxic to Culture

#230
post #65

Lately, I wanted to buy an eBook. I usually buy prints, but this time I needed it as soon as possible. Upon searching, every book store told me, I would need to install some Adobe stuff on my computer to read the file. I am neither a fan of Adobe nor of the idea of being locked in to an application to view a book. After realizing that there is no other digital way, I simply bought the printed version and waited the t…

That's actually the best case for DRM, since Adobe's has been cracked for ages.

Just buy the book, do whatever Adobe wants, then run DeDRM [0] on it and enjoy your DRM free ePub.

[0]: https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/

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