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Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

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Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#51

Post by DanBC »

downandout wrote: post #28

Isn't trespassing, regardless of what you do once you are on private property without permission, already illegal? The video would just be evidence of the crime the person doing the filming committed by being there in the first place. It seems silly that there would need to be a separate law for this.

Many undercover films are made by people who have the landowners permission to be on the property.

And isn't trespass a civil law thing, rather than a criminal law thing? So this law created a criminal component that could be charged.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#53

Post by code_duck »

downandout wrote: post #31
redial wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of them trespass, yes, but most of the filming is done from the outside using a powerful zoom lens, or from a drone, or more commonly, by an employee with access to the property.

Right, but what I was referring to was this: The Utah Legislature approved a bill in 2012 that made it a class B misdemeanor to trespass on private livestock or poultry operations and record sound or images without the owner's permission. So this particular law seems like a solution without a problem, given that trespassing for any reason is already illegal.

In the statute, actually they specifically list reasons that make your presence a trespass.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter6/76-6-S206.html?v=...

Entering property for just any reason doesn't count as trespass... you need to have some sort of malicious intent, and stay despite being reasonably warned (including by signs or a fence) that your presence is not welcome.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#54

Post by tw04 »

downandout wrote: post #28

Isn't trespassing, regardless of what you do once you are on private property without permission, already illegal? The video would just be evidence of the crime the person doing the filming committed by being there in the first place. It seems silly that there would need to be a separate law for this.

>Isn't trespassing, regardless of what you do once you are on private property without permission, already illegal?

In most states you have to follow pretty strict rules around how and what you post in regards to no trespassing signs - and a failure to properly post is an automatic granting of rights to the property. Furthermore they'd likely have trouble actually following the letter of the law given the amount of "unknown" people that need to go in and out of the farm on a daily basis for deliveries/etc.

In other words - if you've got 30 truck drivers a day coming and going, and you haven't given each and every one explicit permission to enter your "private property", you likely have no grounds to sue the person you didn't want there. There is no concept of assumed rights that I can find in Montana law.

http://codes.findlaw.com/mt/title-45-crimes/mt-code-ann-sect...

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#55

Post by microtherion »

wildmusings wrote: post #47
microtherion wrote: post #2

So, combined with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723415 that makes TWO rulings today affirming the right to record pigs…

That's a disgusting thing to say. Before calling police officers pigs, consider that they're the ones who show up to fight for your life when you need them. There's definitely ways to improve policing in America, but the vast majority of them are honorable people doing a dangerous job and serving their countrymen.

I agree that the police are doing a difficult job (NOT a particularly dangerous one, however: http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/data/the-most-dangerous-job...) and they deserve and get my respect when they are doing it properly and let themselves be held accountable.

However, there's a strong movement in the US to undermine accountability. Preventing citizens from recording the police, lying on behalf of colleagues, refusal to hold the police legally accountable in court, and the manufactured outrage whenever somebody says something critical about the police are all part of it.

Ultimately, accountability is what separates the police as citizens in uniform (who deserve and get my respect) from a taxpayer funded gang (who deserve no respect).

And if you think "taxpayer funded gang" is "disgusting" and "hyperbole", read this article and then tell me what's described is NOT gang activity: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-off...

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#57

Post by mondoshawan »

bitJericho wrote: post #50
wildmusings wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a disgusting thing to say. Before calling police officers pigs, consider that they're the ones who show up to fight for your life when you need them. There's definitely ways to improve policing in America, but the vast majority of them are honorable people doing a dangerous job and serving their countrymen.

Don't count on anybody in the us coming to your rescue when you need them. People working in the us government only work for themselves.

Except your fellow humans. We're not all bad.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#58

Post by rayiner »

burntrelish1273 wrote: post #3

Ag-gag laws are legitimized, crooked censorship. The meat processing industry is still extremely insulated, but let's hope this gets chipped away to reveal their secrets. This is one of the reasons undocumented immigrant labor is exploited: they generally won't say anything. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hin... http://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/news_home/Business/2013/... See also: SHowin…

> The meat processing industry is still extremely insulated, but let's hope this gets chipped away to reveal their secrets.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#59

Post by ch4s3 »

rayiner wrote: post #58
burntrelish1273 wrote: post #3

Ag-gag laws are legitimized, crooked censorship. The meat processing industry is still extremely insulated, but let's hope this gets chipped away to reveal their secrets. This is one of the reasons undocumented immigrant labor is exploited: they generally won't say anything. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hin... http://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/news_home/Business/2013/... See also: SHowin…

> The meat processing industry is still extremely insulated, but let's hope this gets chipped away to reveal their secrets. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

The meat industry isn't a person, it's an industry. It shouldn't be able to hide practices that endanger human health and safety. This isn't a privacy issue, this is about protecting the ability of whistleblowers to speak out.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#60

Post by yardie »

wildmusings wrote: post #47
microtherion wrote: post #2

So, combined with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723415 that makes TWO rulings today affirming the right to record pigs…

That's a disgusting thing to say. Before calling police officers pigs, consider that they're the ones who show up to fight for your life when you need them. There's definitely ways to improve policing in America, but the vast majority of them are honorable people doing a dangerous job and serving their countrymen.

There is no honor in propping up corrupt departments and officers. The majority of police officers do. They are concomitant to maintaining the status quo.
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