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Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

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Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#21

Post by colanderman »

averagewall wrote: post #7

How is it ever legal to break into a business's property and secretly video the operations? You surely can't sneak into a factory and record their processes to sell to China. Is it only allowed when it's being used for protesting, not for stealing IP? Or only on farms but not in factories? What about trespass law? Non-disclosure agreements for employees? Are those invalid?

It isn't. Ag-gag laws extend the scope of, or punishment for, trespass with intent to record video of agricultural operations. That is what the courts have found to violate free speech and equal protection.

It is as if states enacted laws against graffiti bearing a particular political or religious message, with either a greater punishment, or broader definition of "graffiti", than existing graffiti laws. Yes, graffiti is already illegal; yet these laws clearly violate free speech and equal protection, since the punishment is different based on what message you are trying to convey with the graffiti.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#22

Post by URSpider94 »

arthur_trudeau wrote: post #18
SwellJoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trespassing and breaking-and-entering were and are still illegal. Ag gag laws went way beyond that; which is why they're unconstitutional.

That's quite the unsupported claim, which is why I wish I could find the decision. Enhancing penalties in certain situations is incredibly common, even with respect to trespassing - trespassing in certain industrial facilities, or in connection with a conspiracy, or involving breaking and entering, all have increased penalties. I don't really see the rationale for not being able to extra-criminalize trespassing for t…

The decision is here: https://www.scribd.com/document/353199724/U-S-District-Judge...

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#23

Post by colanderman »

arthur_trudeau wrote: post #15
kibwen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most embarrassing, context-free 5 minutes they could find of your job The five minutes a day I spend trying to quit vim?

When your job is, eg, slaughtering pigs, or swearing at engines, or dealing with abusive customers (or abusive editors I suppose), you might reconsider.

Swearing at engines isn't illegal or morally reprehensible. Animal abuse is.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#24

Post by URSpider94 »

arthur_trudeau wrote: post #8
lighthazard wrote: post #5

Can anyone explain the justification for not recording? I can only see positive things come out of it.

Would you want someone secretly taking video of the most embarrassing, context-free 5 minutes they could find of your job, and invoking a mob to attack you on that basis? These environments, or disrupting their operations because you're trying to get a sweet shot, can be legitimately dangerous. Discouraging people from trespassing in search of publicity could certainly constitute a rational basis for such a law. It's…

When that five horrible minutes involves feeding live male chicks into a grinder, or spraying water up the nose of a downer cow to get it to go to slaughter (and be made into people food)? Yes, I think there's a legitimate public right to know.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#25

Post by URSpider94 »

arthur_trudeau wrote: post #6

Reporting on legal decisions is garbage when it doesn't even include the name of the case, or better a pointer to the opinion, so I can read the ruling myself. But it seems tenuous to me to claim that the state can criminalize trespassing, but not trespassing for the purposes of X, or conspiring to trespass to commit X, regardless of X.

The case is 2:13-cv-00679-RJS

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#26

Post by colanderman »

arthur_trudeau wrote: post #18
SwellJoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trespassing and breaking-and-entering were and are still illegal. Ag gag laws went way beyond that; which is why they're unconstitutional.

That's quite the unsupported claim, which is why I wish I could find the decision. Enhancing penalties in certain situations is incredibly common, even with respect to trespassing - trespassing in certain industrial facilities, or in connection with a conspiracy, or involving breaking and entering, all have increased penalties. I don't really see the rationale for not being able to extra-criminalize trespassing for t…

In general, application of law must be blind to speech. Yes, trespassing with intent to burgle could lawfully have a greater penalty. Trespassing while shouting "Trump has tiny hands" cannot. This is what "free speech and equal protection" means, and the courts have decided that this applies here.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#28

Post by downandout »

Isn't trespassing, regardless of what you do once you are on private property without permission, already illegal? The video would just be evidence of the crime the person doing the filming committed by being there in the first place. It seems silly that there would need to be a separate law for this.

Re: Judge rules Utah law banning undercover farm filming is unconstitutional

#30

Post by redial »

downandout wrote: post #28

Isn't trespassing, regardless of what you do once you are on private property without permission, already illegal? The video would just be evidence of the crime the person doing the filming committed by being there in the first place. It seems silly that there would need to be a separate law for this.

Some of them trespass, yes, but most of the filming is done from the outside using a powerful zoom lens, or from a drone, or more commonly, by an employee with access to the property.
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