Live data from Hacker News

Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

justice.gov

151–160 of 168 posts

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#151
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in drug cases, there is almost always overwhelming proof that someone committed a crime. Nobody has a kilo of cocaine shoved down their waistband and doesn't know about it. In a case like this, maybe it's a "giant crime," or maybe it's just a customs violation. Unless you have proof of the entity's state of mind, it's impossible to tell the difference.

The overwhelming majority of cases never go to trial. Too often the accused can't afford to make bail, can't afford to be stuck in jail for potentially years while they wait for trial, can't afford competent legal counsel, and end up pleading guilty to whatever crime they're accused of whether they're guilty or not. The types of appeals that you mention in your other comment are not representative of the bread and bu…

You can't just accept a plea deal where the prosecution has no evidence. Plea deals must be approved by judges, and involve a colloquy with the defendant and a showing by the prosecutor of the evidence that the government would be prepared to put forward to establish guilt at trial.

And plea cases come up on appeal all the time (and in fact are probably the typical criminal appeal). A plea bargain agreement generally precludes appeal of the conviction, but does not preclude appeal of the sentence (because the judge, not the prosecutor, decides the sentence).

I have lots of friends who are public defenders. Almost everyone they work with is guilty (much of the work is hammering out plea deals that ensure that they're convicted of the correct things). Same thing for people who work with Innocence Projects, where filtering out all the requests for aid from guilty people is a big part of the work. If the issue were just not sending large numbers of innocent people to prison we would have fixed it. What makes criminal justice so challenging is the constant fight to protect the rights of the innocent within a system where the overwhelming majority of the accused are not just guilty, but obviously so.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#152
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being realistic instead of assuming the legal scrutiny level of a judge, the burden of proof is on them here IMO. When you spend millions of dollars on antiquities, you are at least casually interested in their provenance... Especially when you've hired an expert.

Isn't that kind of the point of hiring an expert? If you knew the provenance of an item, what it was worth, and how it was obtained, why waste money on hiring an expert?

...to verify that you are correct and the items are genuine.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#153

If you read the indictment, you'll see that it is very clear that it was not a straightforward or honest mistake. Here's just one small tip, of many: If you're buying antiquities from a war-torn region, and the seller tells you to instead wire the money to eight different people, none of whom is him, it's possible that this transaction is not on the up and up. Oh, and a second tip: if you're legally exporting things…

It looks like you've created several accounts to post this kind of personal attack today. Would you please not do that here?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14719496 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Yes, and just as sometimes a pre-existing unaffiliated business signs up with a commercial franchise, sometimes a pre-existing unaffiliated jihad group would join al-Qaeda." No you are completely wrong. This is exactly how you become part of Al Queda - you start an affiliate. This is not some grey area: "As such, AQ’s dominant strategy since 2001 has been to encourage affiliate organizations to attack the West, som…

> No you are completely wrong. This is exactly how you become part of Al Queda - you start an affiliate Which doesn't change that for the first five years of its existence the group that later rebranded as al-Qaeda in Iraq was not an affiliate, nor, more to the point which you falsely claimed was incorrect originally, does it change the fact that just as the rebranding from AQI to ISIS was a rebranding of an existing…

You are way off point. Your original statement that I responded to was:

>To be fair, it looks like all this happened in 2010—ISIS wasn't in the nation's consciousness back then:

You are suggesting that since the name "ISIS" hadn't yet become part of popular lexicon that there might a legitimate claim to ignorance.

The fact of that matter is it was known that there was a large terrorist organization controlling large swathes of Iraq at that time. And that this group was using looted antiquity to fund their activities. There is not a single expert on Mesopotamian art who disputes that. It does not matter which moniker they were using.

Everything you have written since that is really just you having an endless semantic argument.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No you are completely wrong. This is exactly how you become part of Al Queda - you start an affiliate Which doesn't change that for the first five years of its existence the group that later rebranded as al-Qaeda in Iraq was not an affiliate, nor, more to the point which you falsely claimed was incorrect originally, does it change the fact that just as the rebranding from AQI to ISIS was a rebranding of an existing…

You are way off point. Your original statement that I responded to was: >To be fair, it looks like all this happened in 2010—ISIS wasn't in the nation's consciousness back then: You are suggesting that since the name "ISIS" hadn't yet become part of popular lexicon that there might a legitimate claim to ignorance. The fact of that matter is it was known that there was a large terrorist organization controlling large…

> You are way off point.

One of us is, but:

> Your original statement [...]

No, the statement you quote was not mine, and not one that I have at any point agreed with or supported.

And your responses to me have neither been germane to the posts they repsonded to or to rebutting that point made by a different poster. It looks like you misread my post agreeing with and providing additional context to your response to that poster as disagreement, and responded with argument that wasnt germane either to the points I actually made or to the point someone else made that you thought I must be arguing for merely because I responded to you.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

L. Bob Rife used an Evangelical Christian church as a cover for his plan to spread the mind-virus that he developed from the information in ancient Sumerian tablets.

Bingo, I was mainly thinking of a large christian organization acquiring ancient artifacts from the middle east.

The big bad organization wasn't Christian though. They just acted like they were.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#157
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no. Hobby Lobby's customers are typically conservative suburban Christians. Liberals with any political awareness at all would know very well of their contraception case at the SCOTUS, and go to Michael's instead. There's no shortage of middle-class evangelical Christians in suburban areas who are perfectly happy to patronize Hobby Lobby and support their political efforts.

I'd say the vast majority of their customers are just people who want crafting supplies and it happens to be the nearest big box store for them. I think a relatively small fraction of the population is as politically aware as you suggest.

The one opportunity I had to go in this store was safely avoided by going to a Michael instead. specifically because I refuse to give them a cent.

it is extremely difficult to avoid stores/businesses owned by religious groups.

I recently avoided purchasing an item from Yakima due to the coming across the following [0]. In reality businesses like Marriott Hotels and Chic Filet irritate me and I avoid when I can (business uses Marriot for work)

if there was a list of athiest or agnostic owned businesses I would likely spend more money at these locations than any others.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcapita#Compliance_with_Shari...

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#158
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An excellent question. Perhaps around the same time that underlying beliefs supersede reason.

I think skeptics uncover truth, while solipsists spread uncertainty.

Sometimes uncovering truth can disrupt previous certainties.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in Democrat eyes, they were already hated villains and they are cheering for the company to hit hard.

Yeah, but none of those Democrats are running the Justice Department right now.

Yes, but even when the Dems were running DOJ, they did not go after corporate executives.

new book on this by Pro Publica reporter:

https://www.amazon.com/Chickenshit-Club-Justice-Department-C...

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#160
post #157
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the vast majority of their customers are just people who want crafting supplies and it happens to be the nearest big box store for them. I think a relatively small fraction of the population is as politically aware as you suggest.

The one opportunity I had to go in this store was safely avoided by going to a Michael instead. specifically because I refuse to give them a cent. it is extremely difficult to avoid stores/businesses owned by religious groups. I recently avoided purchasing an item from Yakima due to the coming across the following [0]. In reality businesses like Marriott Hotels and Chic Filet irritate me and I avoid when I can (busin…

Have to admit, I really don't care if a firm abides by Sharia business laws. They're not compelling anyone else to do it and they're not taking rights away from their employees.
Post reply on HN