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Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

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Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#201

I hope this company sees nothing but success. I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I've interacted with a conventional realtor. It's simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to…

after I bought a house with an excellent agent I can't imagine how you can't use an agent. at least for your first house it's awesome. pictures online are no substitute for going in person. the agents main value is being correct in paperwork and knowing the neighborhood.

I think they are a great tool but not a replacement. great agents are very useful

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#202
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it this is your first transaction buying a house. You are basing what you think on that and what people are saying online. I can assure you as someone that buys real estate (as investments) it typically isn't that easy, at least in a typical market and for most transactions. And I have been doing this since the 1980's fwiw.

You're right it was my first house. I do believe it is sometimes more complicated. But is the value of a realtor's time to me, as a buyer or seller, really several hundred dollars per hour? Is buying a 600k house really twice as difficult a transaction than a 300k house? Why are they not paid a flat fee?

Seller's agents aren't paid a flat fee to align their interest with that of the seller; they want the deal to close at the highest price possible.

Why buyer's agents are paid on sale-price-commission is, OTOH, a real question.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#203

I hope this company sees nothing but success. I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I've interacted with a conventional realtor. It's simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to…

after I bought a house with an excellent agent I can't imagine how you can't use an agent. at least for your first house it's awesome. pictures online are no substitute for going in person. the agents main value is being correct in paperwork and knowing the neighborhood. I think they are a great tool but not a replacement. great agents are very useful

Redfin has agents who walk you through houses, help you with paperwork, and live in the neighborhood... (And you still save thousands over a traditional agent)

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#204
post #70
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are marketing expenses and time invested to list and market a property Putting a house on Zillow takes, what, 15 minutes? Perhaps the exception is very high end real estate, but from what I've seen most of the high end realtors are just really good at networking and schmoozing.

Add up all the time an agent spends previewing the property before listing, taking calls (especially from crazies) and arranging for showings, showings (including driving to and from), negotiating (writing up offers and counter offers), after acceptance arrangements such as coordinating inspections, final readings, closing arrangements. They only get paid if the deal closes. The amount of effort is variable and unkno…

Knowledgeable and experienced consultants typically don't make more than maybe 250 per hour (as a cost the client) that I've seen. That's pretty high at that.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#205

I hope this company sees nothing but success. I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I've interacted with a conventional realtor. It's simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to…

after I bought a house with an excellent agent I can't imagine how you can't use an agent. at least for your first house it's awesome. pictures online are no substitute for going in person. the agents main value is being correct in paperwork and knowing the neighborhood. I think they are a great tool but not a replacement. great agents are very useful

Do agents even write up most of the paperwork? I was under the impression that they just contract that out to a lawyer.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#206
post #193
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you reduce the top-line offer by 3%? Or, if your written offer specifies 3% back to you, how does the seller's agent manage to take 4% in contradiction to the offer? Not sure what jurisdiction you're operating in, but I wasn't aware that offers could dictate chagnes to the terms of a pre-existing listing agreement between the seller and their agent. Would love more details on how to effect something like this.

>but I wasn't aware that offers could dictate changes to the terms of a pre-existing listing agreement between the seller and their agent. Exactly. Sounds like this borders on interference. The seller can't sign such an offer without breaking a previous contract. It may have worked for him because the broker was amendable to changing their agreement but by not having representation the person above may still have ove…

> It may have worked for him because the broker was amendable to changing their agreement but by not having representation the person above may still have overpaid by 2%.

Or you might have representation and still overpay by 2%. It's kind of how investing in a mutual fund with a 3% load doesn't guarantee that you'll beat the market.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#207
Realtors have for the longest time seen other realtors as competitors. Its time they recognise that the true competition is from large sites like Redfin that will use tech to gain an advantage over them.

I realised this after several conversations with realtors about this open source project I've created to help them build decent websites:

https://github.com/etewiah/property_web_builder

Most of them figured if it was open source then any of their competitors could use it and be just as good as them. They would say this even if they recognised that my product would give them a better website than they currently had. Pretty strange way of thinking if you ask me....

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#208
Coming from a background in real estate as an active broker who has worked with Redfin agents, I'd like to point out a few things. Redfin's biggest asset is their website. It's a good user experience and grabs them a lot of leads. However, Redfin agents tend to be subpar agents when representing sellers and or buyers. Most wouldn't survive in a regular brokerage setting. If I am hiring an agent, I want a hungry service oriented agents, not someone who is fine with receiving a salary. Discounts are enticing to consumers, but from what I have noticed these discounts come at a cost to their clients. Rather than list a bunch of examples, from what I have witnessed, Redfin agents are not all that skilled in negotiating. They are actually horrible. Redfin needs to train better but training is a multi-faceted issue. They need experienced brokers who have been beaten up and have seen it all. I was lucky to have a mentor who played a significant role in redefining the industry back in 2001. Let's just say, nobody knew what the concept of Exclusive Buyer Agency was during the late 90s. Anyway, in order to have great agents, they need to learn from smarter battle tested agents in the office. An agent needs good instincts to represent clients well. This takes time - 10,000 hours easy and they need to see a lot of deal flow. You learn from the ugly deals, not the smooth ones. Fortunately, for Redfin most Redfin buyers/sellers won't realize how good their agent is until they have something to compare it to. Redfin does not have top agents nor can the attract high-quality agents. In order for them to succeed in the public market, they will need to increase fees because the cost of maintaining and attracting talent isn't cheap. Discounting gives companies a good chance to obtain market share. But market share will go down once they raise fees. Historically speaking, discount real estate companies don't do well in public markets. Let's look at one example of a company associated with discounts, Zip Realty. I think they did an IPO in 2004 or so. Over the years things didn't go well so they were forced to merge. Now, you might say, REDFIN is different. This is somewhat true but I am sure if you read the Redfin S1, you will see some of the concerns I have addressed.

This is coming from a non-traditional broker. I have always gone against the grain. I believe Redfin will need to evolve a lot to get the public market to embrace them. If I had to guess they will become a little more "traditional" overtime.

I hope Redfin trains better and figures things out. Otherwise, they will need to merge post-IPO.

Sorry for the long comment. I could write forever on this topic. I may do this on my site when I have a couple of hours.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#209
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't disagree with you, Redfin has been in business since 2004. 13 years is a long time to take to kill off realtors. I'm in the process of selling my place and I'm using a realtor (who nearly matched Redfin's seller commission rate). The Redfin agent I first spoke to proposed a generic, templatized method to sell my property - list on N realtor sites, email my contacts, take nice pics - while the realtor I…

I agree. Realtors won't get killed- they'll just have their commissions reduced. I've bought a house through Redfin which was easy enough, but used an agent who agreed to Redfin level fees, but was much more knowledgeable and better at selling my house. From dressing up the house, doing open houses to following up with buyers, to negotiating. Redfin couldn't match him with their inexperienced agents/helpers, high vol…

So the mere existence of Redfin has lowered their fees. Good for you :) and an example of the market at work.

Re: Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

#210
post #153
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good agent is worth 10x their commission. You actually think a 'good' realtor deserves a 60% commission? I can tell you're married to a realtor.

My bad, we're actually pretty good at shrinking the realtor commission, we never pay 6%.

> My bad, we're actually pretty good at shrinking the realtor commission, we never pay 6%.

Maybe a better wording:

A good agent is worth 10x their (extremely?) reduced commission.

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