Live data from Hacker News

Analog Computers

blog.degruyter.com

101–107 of 107 posts

Re: Analog Computers

#101
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big technical EE problem for analog computers is interconnects and their EMI/EMC interference issues and impedance issues. The analog specs for on-chip digital circuitry are much more relaxing to develop around. You can work around the interconnect issues on analog computers by dumping lots of power into the driver and input circuits but eventually some joker is going to point out that it would be electrically chea…

I always hear such things from EE's. So, what's your thoughts on stuff like this in terms of analog "always" being more expensive or power hungry: http://www.cisl.columbia.edu/grads/gcowan/vlsianalog.pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.325... Now, I won't argue with cheaper to develop since analog is manual with a lot of issues to contend with. I'm just wondering if there are more application…

The analogue neural net stuff is quite a reasonable example, because it's specifically trying to mimic a real analogue system and tends to be noise-tolerant.

Couple of points from your lower link:

- return of "wafer-scale"! Nice.

- " the average power consumption is expected to stay below 1 kW for a single wafer"; not bad but you're still going to need to cool that

- actually a hybrid system: long range comms is digital and multiplexed to save wiring, converted to analogue at the synapse

- "All analog parameters are stored in non-volatile single-poly floating-gate analog storage cells developed for the FACETS project" => basically analogue Flash? A development of MLC I suppose

On reading the whole thing, it seems the magic is actually in choosing which bits to make digital. The "long range" neural events are sent as differential 6-bit bursts, multiplexed, which they claim saves significant power.

Re: Analog Computers

#102
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big technical EE problem for analog computers is interconnects and their EMI/EMC interference issues and impedance issues. The analog specs for on-chip digital circuitry are much more relaxing to develop around. You can work around the interconnect issues on analog computers by dumping lots of power into the driver and input circuits but eventually some joker is going to point out that it would be electrically chea…

I always hear such things from EE's. So, what's your thoughts on stuff like this in terms of analog "always" being more expensive or power hungry: http://www.cisl.columbia.edu/grads/gcowan/vlsianalog.pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.325... Now, I won't argue with cheaper to develop since analog is manual with a lot of issues to contend with. I'm just wondering if there are more application…

[deleted]

Re: Analog Computers

#103
post #90
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it usually refers to accuracy out of a range of 1. typically 3 decimal places means 1000ppm and 4dp means 100ppm. The typical problems with analog computers are many... precision of components (e.g. gain or attenuation) is limited to ~0.1% for resistors and ~1% for capacitors (inductors aren't typically used). You can try to tune things (ratiometrically) to get higher accuracy, but at the cost of increased no…

A big technical EE problem for analog computers is interconnects and their EMI/EMC interference issues and impedance issues. The analog specs for on-chip digital circuitry are much more relaxing to develop around. You can work around the interconnect issues on analog computers by dumping lots of power into the driver and input circuits but eventually some joker is going to point out that it would be electrically chea…

> AFAIK no one has built a modern floating point accelerator using opamps and A/D and D/A converters,

This is one of the smartest things i've read on HN. I guess you are correct. Although who knows, perhaps a differential equation solver could be faster using D/A -> analog computer -> A/D?

Re: Analog Computers

#104
post #28

Analog computing makes a lot of sense in the context of genetic algorithms and "deep learning" and I wouldn't be surprised if there's already some ASICs under design using those principles. One big challenge is that the design kits from the foundries aren't likely to include all the analog computer cells that would be needed (but perhaps for example a current mirror into a MIM capacitor could make for an integrator?)…

At the ISCA conference last week, Yoshua Bengio, of DNN fame, talked about their early efforts in analog computing. Here are some related slides of his: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~bengioy/talks/Brains+Bits-NIPS2...

Re: Analog Computers

#105

So, Keith Emerson's Moog Synthesizer[0] was an analog computer, yes? [0] http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03593/emerson6_3...

Cool, I had to come back and post this link of a block diagram of the Moog:

http://cdm.link/app/uploads/2016/03/dangeroussynth.jpg

Re: Analog Computers

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounded cool, so searched for it. Page 41: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Elementary-Elect...

Great! That is definitely the thing I built so other than wrong magazine name and it went up instead of down, it's exactly like I remember it :-)

I printed the article to (hopefully) build in the future.

Re: Analog Computers

#107
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I don't think it is "calculated" in decimal places (if the makes sense). Sort of like how slide rules didn't give you "decimal precision".

Decimal places are just a convenient shorthand for describing the rough order of magnitude of the available precision. "Three decimal places" means roughly 30dB or 0.1%. Slide rules absolutely give you decimal places. A decent slide rule might give you three decimal places of accuracy. A really good one might give you six decimal places, or 0.0001%, or 60dB. You could more precisely quantify their accuracy than just…

Already at the start of the thread I wondered whether a ruler already counts as analogue computer. Now what about straight edge?
Post reply on HN