Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#181

Post by valuearb » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #78

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GoPro closed today at 8 a share, a $1.1bn valuation [1]. They went public in 2014 at 24 (about a $3.3bn valuation) after raising a round in 2012 from Foxconn at a $2.25bn valuation. Their revenues are falling and their operations losing cash. They have $75 million of cash on their balance sheet, less than their Q1 2017 net loss. [1] https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AGPRO&ei=fNBeWcCjCc...

It's not fair to say GoPro has failed simply because investors and traders had unrealistic expectations. The "action camera" market was already saturated in 2014, and it's hard to imagine how they would continue growing at their previous rate when they're selling replacements and minor upgrades. It's possible they're in the process of failing, but it wouldn't surprise me if trying to meet unrealistic expectations cau…

They aren't a failure because their stock price is low, that's a symptom. They are a failure because they couldn't create a sustainable business, and are hemorrhaging cash.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#182

Post by manigandham » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 2:32 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #50

replicatorblog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ascribe the failure to the commodification of the fitness tracker and increasingly platform-driven smart speaker space. Here are some companies that have raised big rounds recently: + SimpliSafe raised $57M from Sequoia + Ring raised $100M+ from DFJ + Formlabs raised $50M from Foundry + Sphero raised $23M in April + Anki raised $52.5M in PE I'm not sure what the future holds for Anki/Sphero, but the first three e…

>SimpliSafe We use SimpliSafe at work. It solves far more problems than the "commodity hardware" issue. It solves the alarm ecosystem and shitty contracts that legacy carriers like ADT trap you into. It's definitely a good model going forward, as you noted. EDIT: Additionally, it solves a "boring" problem, which not many companies want to tackle. Yet there's tons and tons of stable recurring revenue in this space tha…

> Just stability, no-bullshit, and good customer service.

VC mechanics are the opposite of this, they are built for hype-based financial engineering to sell companies to richer and richer investor groups. Product and revenue is secondary.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#183

Post by bb611 » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #50

replicatorblog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ascribe the failure to the commodification of the fitness tracker and increasingly platform-driven smart speaker space. Here are some companies that have raised big rounds recently: + SimpliSafe raised $57M from Sequoia + Ring raised $100M+ from DFJ + Formlabs raised $50M from Foundry + Sphero raised $23M in April + Anki raised $52.5M in PE I'm not sure what the future holds for Anki/Sphero, but the first three e…

>SimpliSafe We use SimpliSafe at work. It solves far more problems than the "commodity hardware" issue. It solves the alarm ecosystem and shitty contracts that legacy carriers like ADT trap you into. It's definitely a good model going forward, as you noted. EDIT: Additionally, it solves a "boring" problem, which not many companies want to tackle. Yet there's tons and tons of stable recurring revenue in this space tha…

> stability, no-bullshit, and good customer service

I'm interning at a recently (12 months ago) acquired standout in the e-commerce provider field, and yesterday I was at a talk where the CTO/co-founder attributed their now multibillion dollar business to the exact same thing.

There are plenty of dumb problems that people just want to not worry about.

I will say, the downside is they spent about 7 or 8 years before going public, and another 4-5 before being acquired (for about 4.5x their IPO price). It wasn't quick money, because you can't prove stability in a year or two, but it is a very powerful business model.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#184

Post by pcsanwald » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #58

pcsanwald wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question: why then did no one copy the iPod, and no one has copied the iPhone with any success? as soon as the iPod came out way back in the day, the criticism was that it would soon be copied. No one ever did, and I worked in the music business at the time and was familiar with everything on the market. nothing ever came close, apple made a ton of money. it's a common thing to say that it's not defensible/can…

I'm under the impression Google/Android had pretty good success in copying the iPhone.

I am asking the question about hardware, not software. if it's so easy to copy hardware, how do you explain apple's dominance with the iPod for such a long period?

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#185

Post by Naritai » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

brlewis wrote: post #174

dwighttk wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Apple watch heart-rate monitoring is not continuous and all-day?

Continuous monitoring is only claimed during a recorded workout https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204666 That page doesn't say specifically, but my recollection is that it's otherwise every 10 minutes if you're still. In non-workout mode they don't measure heart rate if you're moving; presumably not accurate enough. All-day heart-rate monitoring can only be claimed by devices with a battery life of at least a day.

Neither page offered any sort of metric on what constitutes 'accurate'. so how do you know FitBit doesn't just have a lower standard than Apple does?

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#186

Post by ferentchak » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #69

girvo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Sphero BB8. Cutest little toy I've ever had. I can't see them taking over the world though, that's a big round comparatively I would think

Sphero is worth it simply because of connections, they're in Disney's Incubator program (2014): https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/the-walt-disney-company-ann... Which pretty much assures increased growth as they produce more toys for Disney IP. Who knows they could also be using the tech in their parks or for production purposes.

Do you think Disney creates characters to help with toy sales? I know that was a thing in the days of GI Joe.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#187

Post by joshvm » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #89

joshvm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons that these products fail is usually feature creep. Whether due to Kickstarter stretch goals, or pressure from VCs, people don't know when to draw the line and ship. That's followed closely by underestimating costs and under-pricing products. After that you have the risk of developing the product you want, not the product that everyone else needs. I would never suggest anyone starts a hardware business unt…

As a complete outsider, my sense is that things like under costing are partially the result of modern tear-down cost estimates. Where you get a new phone, open it up, and write an article that the $700 msrp iPhone "only costs $135 to build!". No mention of scale to get those component costs, labor cost to assemble, labor cost to design, lengthy prototype phases to idepedently test new ideas and then integration test.…

Pretty much.

If your BOM cost is say $200 including labour, then you should be targeting a price of at least $600. That $200 doesn't include the cost of design, tooling and so on. If you bought a $50k CNC machine you want to get some ROI! If you go for a distributor, they're going to take 10-20% (and they may want a volume discount). You might want some room to have sales, or offer bundle discounts to attract customers. You have to ship the product, market it, support it and fund the next iteration. Why go for razor thin margins? If you have a niche, people will pay. Apple have this nailed - they are expensive because they actually price their products sensibly and they're rolling in cash as a result.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#188

Post by lobotryas » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #108

tunetine wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either explain why the startup wasn't a good fit or the three month gap of employment on the resume. I know which I would chose.

I don't think anyone would ever bat an eye at a 3 month gap in the resume.

I don't "bat an eye", but I always ask about any gap longer than a month to see whether the candidate has an answer and how they explain it. The question is never about the truth for the gap and more to see how they handle the situation.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#189

Post by shas3 » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #132

shas3 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with hardware startups is more subtle. Unless you open up a fundamentally new market segment or find a niche application, your product is asking to be commodified. Smartwatches and fitness trackers were too obvious a category and Samsung, Apple, etc. were sure to swoop in and win. There really is no distinguishing feature for Jawbone or Fitbit. Other hardware startups like Anki are doing stuff tha…

I'd argue that the incumbents wouldn't have thought it possible to build a smartwatch or fitness tracker if it wasn't for these start-ups, though. They're just really good at acquiring and copying. When the iPhone first came out, the way you measured your heart rate was by putting your finger over the camera on the back of the phone.

> When the iPhone first came out, the way you measured your heart rate was by putting your finger over the camera on the back of the phone.

Actually, no. Pulse-oximeters were always quite cheap. Also, Casio had heart rate (although not continuous) monitors on some of their watches for many years.

Re: Jawbone is being liquidated as its CEO launches a related health startup

#190

Post by sbarre » Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

pcsanwald wrote: post #184

nikanj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm under the impression Google/Android had pretty good success in copying the iPhone.

I am asking the question about hardware, not software. if it's so easy to copy hardware, how do you explain apple's dominance with the iPod for such a long period?

Billions of dollars to put into branding.